Pilot's Badge

[C. Kleijn]

Gentlemen, I would like to have your opinions about this Pilot's Badge. I am not really a badge collector, but it was part of a grouping I obtained some time ago. The condition of the badge is not great, the eagle came loose of the wreath and the swaz is bent. All comments are appreciated. If it is a fake, then it must be an older one. Thank you.

Cees

[C. Kleijn]

.

[C. Kleijn]

..

[C. Kleijn]

Nobody to be found with the expertise to judge this badge?

Cees

[Bob Stevens]

Good unknown maker badge IMHO.

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Cees,

It appears to be good badge from the "unknown maker" but it looks a bit strange. The catch does not appear correct and the halos around the rivets are something I've not noticed before on other badges. The eagle looks a bit soft as well. Maybe it's just the condition the badge is in, maybe not and it's a good casting. Can you provide some accurate wreath measurements?

Regards
Mike K

[anguspm]

Mike,

Halos are from the rivet "set".

Solid riveting:

1, Losely position badge
2, Apply set (hollow guide for rivet end) and tap once with a hammer to bring the pieces together
3, Hammerdown rivet stem to form the head.

Some people don´t use the set as its quicker not to but this generally leads to a loseness in the joint (why some eagles wobble even with perfectly formed rivet heads.

Regards,

Angus

[nellyp51]

I think this is a hard one.

My main concern is the hingem most ? hinges are a block formation, where the hinge is missing it almost looks more rounded than square at the top point, my other point would be the detail of the eagle, it has all the right points, just that it lacks in detail around the eagle, it could be worn?.

Like I say for me this is a hard one, has all the right points for the ? maker, but something, I dont know what, something makes me pull mine out to compare.

Personally, I would not purcahse the item, then I am a stickler

I hope that it is OK for you.

[nellyp51]

Another note

It is also the 1st time I have seen the right tallon touching the swaz.

I dont want to be the one to say that this is a fake, but there is just something.

Almost like it is a very good messey example of the ? maker.

Something about the rivet system also.

See how they have those big rings around them, not like the defined small pronounced rings of most ? pilots badges

Hmmmm

[nellyp51]

I would have to say it is good, looking at the facts.

I would not buy it myself however.

Because of the following.

Hinge is right but not right.

Rivets worry me

The eagle's right tallon touches the swaz, and I think the left wing looks messey.

It could have been how it was struck, just a messey job, who knows.

But going by the ? maker facts, I would have to say it is OK.

But I would not buy it because I question the award.

OK OK, Mike just read what you had to say, good we agree



Bet you would not buy it either.

[Mike Kenny]

Mike,

Halos are from the rivet "set".

Solid riveting:

1, Losely position badge
2, Apply set (hollow guide for rivet end) and tap once with a hammer to bring the pieces together
3, Hammerdown rivet stem to form the head.

Some people don´t use the set as its quicker not to but this generally leads to a loseness in the joint (why some eagles wobble even with perfectly formed rivet heads.

Regards,

Angus

Hi Angus,

Sorry, I wasn't specific. I understand the process but I was referring specifically to badges by the "unknown maker". On their early tombak badges, the rivets look like they were hammered, not set. On the zinc badges (which is the hinge/catch setup this badge appears to have), some badges have some deep partial rings adjacent (1-2 mm away) to the rivets but as I siad, I don't recall seeing this style of halo around rivets on an "unknown maker" Pilot/PO Badge.

Regards
Mike K

[nellyp51]

Neither

None in Benders book either.

Makes me ask the question Mike

[Erich B.]

It looks like a zinc version of the 'unknown' maker badge--looks okay to me.
Erich

[Larry Lipps]

Just enough issues to bug me, I'd have to pass.

[C. Kleijn]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. The swaz is not touching the right tallon of the eagle, but the swaz is a little bent so that might give the impression. To answer the question about the measurements, the width of the wreath is 42-43mm, and the height of the wreath is 52-53mm - it is hard to be precise, because the badge might be a little bent as well. The lower hinge could have been replaced, and seems to be made of copper. Even if original, it has some issues, apparently. I tend to believe it is an original badge, because of its history, but I want to sell it on the e-stand and I have to be sure. What is a good value of this badge? Looking forward to more comments.

Cees