High Seas Fleet badge - Opinions?

[Scott R.]

Hi Scott,

IMO this is a scary improvement of a well known fake. It is the RS&S HSF fake with the maker mark removed and a significantly improved hinge/pin to make it look more "Schwerin-like". Looks like some obverse detailing has also been enhanced/sharpened.

Here are some old pictures of the RS&S fake courtesy of a notorious fake seller from Arizona. Although they are small, the reverse wreath profile is still an exact match. The typical Schwerin "dimple" at the hinge end of the pin is a very scary improvement.

My opinion, return this POS and get your money back.

Regards
Mike K

I can't see any evidense that a maker mark was ground off, and the hinge looks un-messed with. Are you sure?

[Terrence]

there are several points that make me want to know more about this badge. The detail of the eagles head is excellent!! Perhaps too good. There are really crisp details to many of the ships structures, yet the barrels of Anton turret are less than some of the other ships. There is a great deal of detail to the waterline of the ship as well. The bridge windows remind me of the very early Schwerin badges, before the "fifth" window fix job. The detail of the acorns just below the wings are not near as crisp as the eagle itself. Seems inconsistent with the details of much of the rest of the badge. I am a bit stumped by this one. I will look forward to hearing from the other members.

Interesting badge

Best regards,
Terrence

[Darrell]

Here is an old thread with an RS&S maker marked HSF Badge. Is this the type of reverse set up for this maker?

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...=RSS+HSF+Badge

[Scott R.]

there are several points that make me want to know more about this badge. The detail of the eagles head is excellent!! Perhaps too good. There are really crisp details to many of the ships structures, yet the barrels of Anton turret are less than some of the other ships. There is a great deal of detail to the waterline of the ship as well. The bridge windows remind me of the very early Schwerin badges, before the "fifth" window fix job. The detail of the acorns just below the wings are not near as crisp as the eagle itself. Seems inconsistent with the details of much of the rest of the badge. I am a bit stumped by this one. I will look forward to hearing from the other members.

Interesting badge

Best regards,
Terrence

I am as well. Keep em coming guys.
Let me know if additional close ups are needed.

Note that the Camera will get some extreem detail with the Macro setting. Holding the badge in my hand, I can't pick up on the difference in detail between the eagle and the acorn.

[Terrence]

An improved RSS, that is why it seems familiar. I used to own one of the really early ones.

[Mike Kenny]

I can't see any evidense that a maker mark was ground off, and the hinge looks un-messed with. Are you sure?

Scott,

You totally misunderstood me. I did not say an old repro had been altered. I believe the dies used to make the well known repro have been significantly improved (including the removal of the maker mark to make it harder to type it to a known maker) and they have also improved the way they manufacture the repro hinge and catch.

Regards
Mike K

[Scott R.]

Scott,

You totally misunderstood me. I did not say an old repro had been altered. I believe the dies used to make the well known repro have been significantly improved (including the removal of the maker mark to make it harder to type it to a known maker) and they have also improved the way they manufacture the repro hinge and catch.

Regards
Mike K

OK, now I undersatnd.
Here is a close up of the hinge - Photo enhance and I shined and LED flashlight on it to eliminate shadows.

[Terrence]

The detail in the eagle feathers looks like from a Schwerin die. The middle row of feathers in the wings on the starbord side are longer than on the port side. The square holes in the ship at the waterline also speak of "alteration" to me. Ok... enough from me, where are the big guns?


Best regards,
T

[Mike Kenny]

...where are the big guns?

Obverse of the badge, near the center, just below the bridge windows.

Regards
Mike K

[Scott R.]

The detail in the eagle feathers looks like from a Schwerin die. The middle row of feathers in the wings on the starbord side are longer than on the port side. The square holes in the ship at the waterline also speak of "alteration" to me. Ok... enough from me, where are the big guns?


Best regards,
T

As you are facing the badge. Th wing to your right is almost 1/2mm longer. Overall wingspan is exactly 31mm.
If this is a Fake, we might as well document it as best possible for future reference.
Please keep the opinions comming.
Thanks

[John T]

Can somebody post a back view of the RSS side by side with a back view of the unmarked HSF posted here? I am just scrolling up and down this page and I believe the back cut-out is the same but would like to see a side by side comparison to be sure.

[Frank Heukemes]

I agree it is the RS&S fake. These have been around as long as the marked ones, with the two different hinge variations.

Scott, if you bend the pin, it should give way without too much finger pressure, right?

[mrg]

Hi Scott must say im also not to keen on this award for me there is two much detail present on the hull of the ship and its superstructure. There also appears to be evidence of pot holes (for want of a better word) on the reverse. The wave structure is close but not accurate.All the best

[Scott R.]

I agree it is the RS&S fake. These have been around as long as the marked ones, with the two different hinge variations.

Scott, if you bend the pin, it should give way without too much finger pressure, right?

Why yes it does as a matter of fact. I never would have thought it would.
Thanks!!

[Scott R.]

Hi Scott must say im also not to keen on this award for me there is two much detail present on the hull of the ship and its superstructure. There also appears to be evidence of pot holes (for want of a better word) on the reverse. The wave structure is close but not accurate.All the best

Not sure what you mean by "pot holes". The back is smooth with no holes in it. Maybe I missunderstood?