U boat badges opinions please

[Bruv]

I would like your opinions on these 2 badges. My questions are about the pin catches and also, did they make a pin clasp? I don't think either is good, but after looking at the threads on fakes, I can't find exacts or nears of either of these. Thanks in advance.

Dave

[Bruv]

next first badge

[Bruv]

next 2 first badge

[Bruv]

last first badge

[Bruv]

second badge

[Bruv]

next 2nd badge

[Bruv]

next 2 2nd badge

[BubbaZ]

Hi Dave,
You are correct, both u-boats are doubtless fakes.
Cheers,
Hubert

[John R.]

Agree, both fakes.

[Bruv]

Well, I figured so. Do u boat badges come with the pin back on all makers, or on only certain makers? Besides the catches, what are a couple of other things on these that scream fake? Thanks for the previous opinions.

Dave

[John R.]

Too complex to put into a quick post. Please study the pinned threads above to find the answers to your questions.

Basically though, you must not worry about what the characteristics are of a fake. You must first understand the characteristics of a period badge.

Most collectors take a quick look at the obverse and a careful look at the reverse since it is on the reverse where the usual signs of fakes can be found in hinge, pin and catch.

John

[Bruv]

Ok, I did study those pages, but I guess as with most of this stuff, it takes a lot of study and in hand look. I can see the clasp hook differences and the hinges, but I can't see too much in the maker mark. Is it the 8 that one looks at or probably all of it? Back to the books. Thanks for the info.
Dave

[John R.]

It took many many years for us to figure out the maker mark issue for Schwerin Berlin. Norm expanded on that early work and has a good pinned thread about the mark.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=264589&page=2

You are right, it takes a lot of study.

John

[BubbaZ]

Hi Dave,
Here is marked tombak Schwerin u-boat that I have for you to compare:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=727839&page=4
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi Dave,

Your second badge I'm sure you can see is far beyond any normal one and can be dismissed out of hand. The roughly cast texture, incorrect hardware and maker mark all send up huge red flags.

It's your first badge that requires a closer look. The maker mark is much closer to an actual Schwerin mark. Here's the sort of comparison you have to do to appreciate the difference, after which it's easy to see multiple differences, including the shape of the "E" in "Berlin" and the vertical alignment of the "R" with the "H".

Furthermore, the obverse design of that badge is not Schwerin but rather Steinhauer & Lück. In fact, that badge is an odd hodge-podge of an S&L zinc planchet, a Deumer-like hinge block hinge and attachment, hand-cut swastika, improvised catch on long rectangular catch plate and a spurious Schwerin mark. It's probably a combination of wartime and post-war parts assembled post-war for the souvenir or collector market with a fake maker mark thrown in to fool the unknowing buyer.

Best regards,
---Norm