Another S-boat. Schwerin

[Darrell]

Hi Darrell,

To be fair, Tony wasn't angry about the opinions expressed about his badge, but rather about the badge being posted so quickly in the fake's gallery, before "due process" as it were. This matter is now resolved so let's put all this "heat of the moment" stuff behind us now and stick to the analysis of this badge --- an excellent topic from which we all benefit.

Best regards,
---Norm

Norm you're just too nice. Sounded more like a shot at all the "experts" to me. But whatever. I wouldn't be so forgiving if it was me he directed those comments to. And I sure wouldn't waste my time helping some one that didn't appreciate it in the first place.

[JAndrew]

Hi Darrell,

First, Norm is ever the gentleman.

Second, "And I sure wouldn't waste my time helping some one that didn't appreciate it in the first place." I can understand those sentiments and feel the frustration that would make you say that. But also realize that for the rest of us this particular badge being discussed is further education and for that this thread is of tremendous value. After all that is the ultimate purpose of WAF, is it not? Whether someone wishes to take advantage of said education is an individual choice.

And last, I can -and perhaps we all should- empathize with Tony's initial reaction, after all, Tony is a good person. I have experienced having an item that I had for quite a while and always felt it was good being shown to me as a fake. It is not a good feeling and if it is an expensive item it is really not a good feeling and disbelief and anger are sometimes the initial reactions. My father always told me to wait at least a day before responding to something negative. That advice has saved me a lot of apologies. Best thing to do is forgive, forget and move on, life is too short.

Again, I understand your feelings but trying to understand Tony's as well.
JAndrew

[amiklic1]

Ok guys, the attack is gone and even if Norm spent additional time to clarify, which most of us appreciate (but obviously there are some that are not ;-) ), this badge is still a suspicious one, not to say it's an obvious fake.

I have passed through all possible scenarios in my head, from using other firm's tools to original late-war non-standard piece and none of them holds the water, to say honestly.

This badge, compared to known and approved originals, does not look good when put under magnifier.

It will fool many on the show (including me ;-) ) but when published here it just get what it deserves.

I give it a

[Steve Mezey]

Size

I think if weights and dimensions were provided that would put this baby to bed! I too am on the negative side and I agree with all of the member's feedback pertaining to the badge in question shown alongside known originals. I for one would not want this badge in my collection and if I was offered it, I would pass.

Just my two cents worth
Steve

[Tiger 1]

Gentlemen (that includes Darrell also)

I was able to measure and weigh the s-boat badge I posted.

Before I get to that aspect I would like to thank Norm and John for their kindness in hearing the rest of the story. I appreciate that.

Being and old time collector I'm fully aware that there are verying opinions about what we collect. A spirited exchange of ideas is basic for our hobby to survive and move forward with new knowledge. My problem was with the fact that I did not get to provide any pertinent info regarding the badge I posted before it was shunted into the fake thread. Not an exchange of ideas as I understand that to be.

So....I wrote a piece of my mind in a tongue and cheek way with some dark humor. My verbal picture drew heavily on the last scene in the old original 'Frankenstein' flick with the townspeople beseiging the castle with torches. Obviously the analogy didn't work out .

In retrospect I can say for certainty that I did not name any names nor target any specific individuals. I didn't even use the word 'expert' in my post. As it was no 'experts' were intentionally mistreated or injured in the production ot my post .

Those of you who nay have taken my post personaly I offer my sincere apology. But you have to search your conscience as to why you took afront to words not intend to be personal.

That being said let's move on to the s-boat badge in question.

I was looking for facts when I posted the pics. I had my concerns and was looking for proof. I was given opinions, well intentioned as they were, they weren't proof in the true sense.

Here's what I have found in the way of measurements and weight. The numbers on the leftvare from Weber/Skora's book "The Kriegsmarine Badges". The numbers on the right are my badge in question.

Width in mm................44.9 vs. 43.75
Height in mm...............57.1 vs. 56
Weight in grams..........32.4 vs. 22.3


The numbers confirm that my badge is not right. I can accept that fact. It is proof positive.

Oh well...we live and learn.

My final note is to Darrell. I hope this event won't prevent you from enjoying what I have to offer in my boxes of chocolate. I will event let you know which chocolates contain the prunes. Darrell if you make it to the SOS in the spring the first cold one us on me.

Thanks for reading this far.

All the best.

Tony

P.S. That S-boat badge I posted is a FAKE. And an old one at that.

[Martin W]

All i can say is thank you Tony and i am sorry that your badge appears to be a bad one.

With appreciation,Martin.

[all1knew]

another useful thread of relevance:

http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/s...d.php?t=163734

William Kramer

[Neusilber]

Cheers guys, glad emotions didn't cloud sound reasoning and discussions

Great info and bookmarked thread for sure

[Tiger 1]

Thanks guys.

Learned more than I expected.

All the best.

Tony

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Just refreshing this thread to post another example of this same type of fake. I'm told this example is 1.5 mm under size and 6 g lighter than originals. It has similar problems with the finish and the margins as the other example posted by Tony, and although the hardware is well done the top surface of the wide pin looks slightly concave. I think this old reproduction is the most deceptive fake of the Schwerin S-Boat ever produced.

Best regards,
---Norm

[BubbaZ]

Indeed Norm, very dangerous one... easy to spot when sitting in front of the screen watching high resolution images but at the show, when overexcited and in bad light conditions I do not know... could fool anyone.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Blue Yeti]

Thank you all for the sensible debate and knowledge shared I have learned a lot from this thread.

BY

[Brian S]

I am NOT a KM expert. But I will post mine after reading how good the fakes are. I hope I can channel some Luftwaffe badge knowledge onto this one and see positive aspects to this one but I leave it to you guys who have much more expertise than me on these KM beauties.

[Brian S]

mm

[BubbaZ]

Hi Brian,
Yours is very nice tombak S-boot
Cheers,
Hubert