uboat badge help needed

[david clarke]

Gidday guys ,I need help on this badge ,good or evil, thanks in advance

[david clarke]

,

[BubbaZ]

Hi David,
Pics are taken frm an angle but it looks like the controversial 'flatback' u-boat. Maker and period pf production remains unknown, most likely postwar.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Hi David,

I agree with Hubert, from the photos provided looks like the needle-pin variant of the "flatback maker" U-Boat.

Here's another example:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=644823

And here's the variant with the Rettenmaier-like wide pin:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=632433

Whether late war or post-war "replacement", and whether made by Rettenmaier or not (who was still in business post-war) is still unknown.

Best regards,
---Norm

[david clarke]

Thank you very much for the info guys,regards Dave

[Patrick W]

Guys

Just reference the flatback u-boat- I have been today shown a group of items by a work colleague that his grandfather brought back from his war service, mostly his own insignia but also a pair of army leutnants boards and a flatback u-boat with no finish remaining- it is the type with the wide pin and looks like a typical late war badge from the way the gilding has faded. Who knows if some of these were produced later but this is a genuine wartime badge (at least some of them).

[Norm F]

Who knows if some of these were produced later but this is a genuine wartime badge (at least some of them).

Hi Patrick,

I think that sums it up pretty well. Rettenmaier clearly had a lot of leftover stock at war's end, in the same manner as Souval, right up until post-2000 if one accepts the Frank Heukemes anecdote. Some of them had to be wartime and a bunch would be post-war leftovers; what remains unclear is if Rettenmaier (or someone else) indulged in post-war assembly and finish in the manner of Souval. That's certainly a distinct possibility, especially when you consider the evolution of setups and finishes like these two Minesweepers, the second of which has an acetone-soluble finish. I'd be inclined to call the classic setup with the oval catch plate "wartime compatible" and the second type of "unknown time period".

One final point is that I suspect the Rettenmaier-attributed pieces (like those discussed in the recent threads found in cellophane LDO envelopes) were private purchase from LDO shops or replacement pieces, 2nd awards, etc. rather than KM-ordered award pieces. Granted that's speculation, but on the Minesweeper front we've often seen German vet groupings with Schwerin, Juncker and unmarked AS zincers, but not flatbacks. Flatbacks seem to show up instead in Allied vet collections as post-war bring-backs.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

A couple more examples of "flatback" U-Boat variants (or "Rettenmaier-attributed" if you like). One needle-pin and one wide-pin, both showing the typical variable hand cutting of the margins.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Patrick W]

thanks Norm, interesting stuff- personally I would not have any issue with all 4 badges you have just shown as being wartime manufacture. I have owned a couple of 1st pattern s-boats by this maker with that rectangular catch plate and reverse catch and liked them very much in hand.