First pattern S-boat

[peterm]

Hi guys !

I know, this S-Boats with the "o"-mark caused a lot of discussions... But I really think, this is a wartime-badge.
What's Your opinion?

Kind regards, Peter

[peterm]

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[Norm F]

Hi guys !

I know, this S-Boats with the "o"-mark caused a lot of discussions... But I really think, this is a wartime-badge.
What's Your opinion?

Kind regards, Peter

Hi Peter,

I agree that it's a nice looking S&L S-Boat, but with zinc S&Ls like this, like Souval, it's impossible to be 100% sure whether a badge was wartime or post-war assembly from leftover parts. It's simply not known.

There's a thorough discussion on these here:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=541818

We know the following facts:
1) S&L ordered 1st pattern S-Boat tooling from Wissmann during the war.
2) The short barrel hinge setup with "o" mark appeared on the early post-war leftover sample board, presumably from 1945.
3) Some examples appear without the "o" mark and other S&L setups (which may be wartime production).
4) The round sheet metal hinge setup like yours appeared in shows in large quantities in England in the 1970's, and it's not known whether these represent a hoard find or post-war assembly by S&L (a practise which definitely did occur for the S&L Hilfskreuzer badge and so presumably others as well).

So without iron-clad provenance, you can't know for sure whether this S-Boat (or any other "wartime-compatible" S&L zincer) was assembled and finished pre-May, 1945 or after, although it stands to reason that some must have been wartime.

Best regards,
---Norm

[peterm]

Hi Norm !

Many thanks for Your explanations ! I knew most of that before I bought the badge. Unfortunately I didn't get it from a vet, it once came from a collection I knew for a very long time. It was not too high priced and I do believe in this ones. But - as You stated - maybe we will never know for sure !

Kind regards, Peter

[BubbaZ]

I agree with Norm, nice S&L S-boot
Cheers,
Hubert

[Thomas Bendixen]

I Would happily add a piece like that to my collection! As a sidenote Christian v. Tettinek mentions in IMM Nr. 72 1993 p.5 that souch a badge is known in a large southgerman collection and comes from the inventory of a LDO shop.

Cheers Thomas

[magnusmilitaria]

nice worn Steinhauser & Lück !

[Norm F]

As a sidenote Christian v. Tettinek mentions in IMM Nr. 72 1993 p.5 that souch a badge is known in a large southgerman collection and comes from the inventory of a LDO shop.

Cheers Thomas

Hi Thomas,

Does that publication show a photo to tell us which reverse setup is on the badge from the LDO shop and whether it has the "o" mark or not?

BTW, what's an "LDO shop"? Are you suggesting there were specific LDO outlets that carried a variety of different makers' private purchase badges? I hadn't heard of that term before, although I could certainly imagine a 3rd party awards dealer carrying such products.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Thomas Bendixen]

Hi Norm

The badge pictured in the article is a perfect match to the one shown here in the thread. The author writes that "Ein solches Abzeichen befindet sich in einer grossen sammlung in Süddeutchland und stammt aus dem bestand eines LDO - Fachgeschäftes."

KR, Thomas

[Norm F]

Hi Norm

The badge pictured in the article is a perfect match to the one shown here in the thread. The author writes that "Ein solches Abzeichen befindet sich in einer grossen sammlung in Süddeutchland und stammt aus dem bestand eines LDO - Fachgeschäftes."

KR, Thomas

Thanks Thomas. Tantalizing, but unfortunately several degrees of separation. He says,"Such a badge is in a big collection in South Germany and comes out of an LDO specialty shop." but he doesn't say the actual one pictured in the article was from that collection, so maybe it's just what the author sees as the same sort of badge?

Anyway, it stands to reason some of S&L's S-Boats are wartime (and the one at the top of the thread is a decent candidate), but the perennial unanswerable question (as with Souval) always remains which ones?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Thomas Durante]

Anyway, it stands to reason some of S&L's S-Boats are wartime (and the one at the top of the thread is a decent candidate), but the perennial unanswerable question (as with Souval) always remains which ones?

Ah, the eternal question...which ones!

Tom