U Boat Badge | 5 Feather Type - Opinions Needed

[mike1217]

Can anyone advise as to the authenticity on my U Boat Badge? It is a 5 feather type, I am having trouble referencing it as authentic or not. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

unnamed.jpg 5.jpg 4.jpg 3.jpg

[Norm F]

Hi mike1217,

As you know, the 5-feather U-boats are a bit of a conundrum although the tooling likely originated in wartime, as discussed previously here:
https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...nions?t=740363

As to your example, if real, at least the hardware has been replaced and the badge refinished. Either that or the whole thing was assembled and finished post-war in the first place. Hard to tell which.

Best regards,
—-Norm

[Norm F]

Hi mike1217,

On second look, I'd say your badge is entirely post-war produced. For reference here are the two variants of outline trimming seen in the 5-feather U-boats -- the second type is not cut out under the gun. On yours, all the outlines are mis-shapen and especially around the flag and gun. Furthermore, when you compare obverses, the detail is quite soft on yours, suggesting either a casting or a striking from the worn post-war die seen in the other thread (link provided) without access to the original trimming stamp.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Out of interest I compared that badge to a flipped image of the worn obverse die from the other discussion thread. Interestingly they show similar lack of detail and similar gun and flag shapes. I wouldn't be surprised if that badge was made from that die at some point when the original trimming die was no longer available, necessitating hand cut and filed margins. Alternatively, a casting could have been made from the dies instead of from a badge.

[Norm F]

Alternatively, a casting could have been made from the dies instead of from a badge.

Looking at the irregular surface of the badge margins, now I would say this is a casting with smoothed edges.

Best regards,
---Norm

[mike1217]

Looking at the irregular surface of the badge margins, now I would say this is a casting with smoothed edges.

Best regards,
---Norm

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation and visual examples. With the 5 feather type, I am reading of two known war made types and a post war / late war type? Are you considering mine to be of post war / late war? Original with that being said?

[BubbaZ]

Thanks for the comparisons Norm, I agree, a cast fake.
Cheers,
Hubert

[Norm F]

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation and visual examples. With the 5 feather type, I am reading of two known war made types and a post war / late war type? Are you considering mine to be of post war / late war? Original with that being said?

Hi mike1217,

Yours is definitely post-war.

It seems likely the original 5-feather tooling design was created in late wartime if the Schwerin/Diehle-marked dies are accepted at face value, and it's theorized that some solid zincers may have made it into production before the war's end but not irrefutably proven. As mentioned, those solid zincers of possible wartime vintage are seen with two different trimming patterns around the deck gun of the U-boat.

The hollow-back version is certainly post-war production and quite possibly an Assmann product created from the Schwerin-marked tooling. Here are two examples of the post-war hollow version and some Assmann products from the same era for comparison. You will notice that the trimming outlines around the flag and deck gun on the hollow version are the same as on your post-war solid badge which is different from the possibly-wartime solid badges.

Best regards,
---Norm

[mike1217]

Thank you Norm! When you say post war, do you think it is a fake or a post war item that was distributed as a legit award?

[Norm F]

Thank you Norm! When you say post war, do you think it is a fake or a post war item that was distributed as a legit award?

Well, it's a subtle distinction to most collectors today who for the most part seek wartime artifacts. Back in the 1960s the intended market likely included both collectors and veterans, but that doesn't really make it a "legit award".

Best regards,
---Norm