Sniper Badge-Hand Embroidered

[Peter v L]

[chen]

Interesting to see the growing of this grouping.

[chen]

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[Thomas Durante]

7. Snipers badge 3´d class. This badge was with the group, when it came from the estate, but I can not with 100% certainity say it is original, or a 1957 issue. My guess is however that it was made after the war.

Peter, thanks for coming into the thread and posting your original sales text, I think things are becoming clearer.

So even though this group came 2nd hand from the family, you had your doubts that the sniper badge was not originally with the group and that the badge itself was likely postwar. I would tend to agree with this due to the fact that there is no document for the sniper badge but the other documents are there for other badges. By all accounts, the document for a badge was more important than the badge itself, so I find it odd that although the sniper badge is mentioned in the soldbuch, there is no document for it.

Another question I have is WHEN did the group pick up the 2nd sniper badge and the EKs? It wasn't in your original sales thread and as Chen says, it seems the grouping is growing as time goes on...

Tom

[jacquesf]

Tom, the same question was asked by Peter in the previous thread. When it ended up with the owner before me, all the extras were there. At that stage it was not known that the extras were not original to the group. J

[tgn]

Oops.

I bet you will see a lot of sniper badges for sale at the SOS this year.

Tom

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

this group seems to have been through more hands than Madonna in her late 20s...

To avoid a thread of Mengele Passport proportions... maybe a solution is to do a simple timeline ?

1) Family
2) Picker
3) PvL
4) Collector 1
5) Collector 2
6) Collector 3
7) Collector 4
8) Collector 5
9) Etc.

There seems to have been 2 crimes in the murder of this group....

IMHO faking a group is more tragic than faking a wound badge....

Crime 1) The first crime was the first collector to bury PvLs info that the badge was very probably post war. Supressing the info that it was PvLs opinion is like having the proof that your friend is not guilty of a murder... but hiding it at the trial so you can get his girlfriend.... its like offering your "virginal daughter" for marriage, but knowing you pimped her out to sailors and she has terminal syphilis.... It would IMHO be very hard to justify supressing this info as it does big damage to the integrity of the group.

Crime 2) All the add ons.... surely someone can pinpoint when that happened?

This group is in no way self authenticating.... but maybe ex owners can help fill in the timeline and see when the dirty deeds were done?

[Jeff V]

This is exactly why i am not a big fan of groupings. Also, why IMO they should not cost more than the sum of the parts.
Peter- what leads you to believe that these patches are post war?
best wishes,
jeff

[tgn]

This is all very interesting. Peter v L, to his credit, expressed doubts about the sniper badge. But if I got this correct, Niemann vetted it. What is a Niemann COA worth these days? Maybe there was a reason he quit being a dealer so suddenly?

[Chris Boonzaier]

This is exactly why i am not a big fan of groupings. Also, why IMO they should not cost more than the sum of the parts.

jeff

Groups are not dishonsest... collectors are.

[Jeff V]

Groups are not dishonsest... collectors are.

A word play Bill Clinton would be proud of. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
Yes, a shame that groups have to be touched by the evil hands of collectors and dealers!

[Peter v L]

This is exactly why i am not a big fan of groupings. Also, why IMO they should not cost more than the sum of the parts.
Peter- what leads you to believe that these patches are post war?
best wishes,
jeff

It was so long time ago that I got it. At that time the knowledge of these badges was not the best.

I took the sure path before the unsure as I did not want to fool someone.

The badge may be original, I know Niemann thought so, who knows with these.

For me the Soldbuch was the gem as it was definatly not played with.

Best

P

[Chris Boonzaier]

A word play Bill Clinton would be proud of. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
Yes, a shame that groups have to be touched by the evil hands of collectors and dealers!

But seriously.... An untouched group is the purest form of what we collect.... HISTORY....

I have many groups that I have picked up from non collector sources over the years... The tragedy is, the next guy down the line will shrug and say "hmmm... maybe it was messed with..."

And why? because too many people in our hobby mess with things.... adding, exchanging,

I had a fantastic German Cross in Gold/Lifesaving group, 2nd panzer division 1939-45... Poland, france, greece, gates of moscow (his regt was the one who got into th suburds) Normandy, Ardennes etc. etc...

Docs and awards, from the family...

I sold it to a collector in Italy... 6 months later sold by Niemann, totally unrecognisable with things added and changed...

(Anyone have the group to Georg Schmeltzer, contact me and i will tell you what really belongs there...)

I personally dont believe it was niemann who did the dirty... I think it was the guy who bouhgt it from me, or the guy who bought it from him... but there you go...

History destroyed...

[101combatvet]

Oops.

I bet you will see a lot of sniper badges for sale at the SOS this year.

Tom

I'm waiting to pick some up on the e-stand and holding on to them until the next generation of sniper nuts come about.

[Jeff V]

It was so long time ago that I got it. At that time the knowledge of these badges was not the best.

I took the sure path before the unsure as I did not want to fool someone.

The badge may be original, I know Niemann thought so, who knows with these.

For me the Soldbuch was the gem as it was definatly not played with.

Best

P

Fair enough, thanks Peter!
jeff