The A.D Schwerdt company was located in Stuttgart. Adolf Scholze in Gruenwald and Rudolf Karnath in Gablonz. Their products show some connection by either materials used (finish), hardware, or design. Looking at the finishes of these badges I see simularities. The AS (in triangle) front and the RF GAB front have the same shiney plating type coating. The reverses all have the same matt finish that you usually find. The reverse finish is more durable than the front side finish. I don't have a silver A.S. to compare but would like to see one posted. Given that these manufacturers were geographically located it is reasonable to expect some level of collaberation, either in design, construction, or materials used. I'm sure they bought thier machinery, raw materials etc... from the same suppliers.
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I tried to find Gablonz an der Neckar and Gruenwald an der Neckar on Mapquest. It doesn't recognize the names so I followed the Neckar River for 60 miles in either direction with no luck. Were they suburbs of Stuttgart that have since been absorbed or am I lost?
I also think that if you look at the reverse of the A.S. PAB you will see the reverse has more in common with the RK than with the AS (triangle). I know this reopens the Scholze/Schwerdt debate but I think it is logical to assume that each company made thier own PABs using thier own equipment. Hence the different crimping methods and catches in the AS series of PABs.
AS (triangle) uses the same crimp on its IABs, snellboot, destroyer badges etc... so why would they buy another machine/tools to do it differently?pseudo-expert -
Here is the A.S. reverse of my bronze PAB. Note it is different from the other two makers posted above though it closely resembles the RK crimp but has the AS(triangle) catch (which has a totally different crimp).
pseudo-expertComment
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Don,
Another theory to consider is that parts for catch and hinge hardware was bought from the same supplier. In other words some company X was producing these parts in their region and company X was supplying AS, AD and RK. It is the theory only, but why not? Then the final “setup” assembly was done by each of the companies on their own.Comment
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Robert, that is part of my theory. Regional suppliers of materials, machinery, tools, and perhaps even dies. What doesn't make sense is for a manufacturer to buy different machinery/tools for crimping componants together unless thier original ones broke and couldn't be replaced or thier original manufacturer of hinges and catches quit supplying them with that type made for thier current tooling. Bottomline is I think we have two different manufacturers in the AS series of PABs. The question is how to tell them apart? I think by looking at the manufacturing process we can hopefully do this.pseudo-expertComment
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Don,Originally posted by ddoering
We know that we have 4 different grass patterns between AS badges. And if I’m remembering this correctly, Philippe said before, that it is kind of strange to have so many variations for one manufacturer only. Unfortunately I’m at work now, so I cannot post my AS PAB’s but when I will get back to home, I will make really detailed shots of these badges (with hinge and catch setup).Comment
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Thanks Robert. I think this is the PAB version of the "Rounder" debate. We never quite come to a conclusion but at least we don't get violent.
Donpseudo-expertComment
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Don,
to make it more interesting let me quote Philippe here:
"AS features the exact same grass pattern as the hollow .A.S.
After just posting both of them I took a closer look and the differences I think I saw are just the result of the different base material used in the production of these badges.
So not 5 but only 4 grass patterns and the hollow .A.S and A.S. and the scooped A.S. for sure were made by one and the same maker using two different obverse dies.
KR
Philippe"
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Dear Don,
a.d.N. does not mean "an dem Neckar", it means "an der Neiße". Different river, different area.
Originally posted by robert60446Cheers, Frank
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Faulty reference books. Frank, does the place still exist? What city is it near?
thanks
Donpseudo-expertComment
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Gablonz is the city referenced most often in connection with the river Neiße. River and city still exist today, of course.Cheers, Frank
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And it now lies in the Czech Republic.pseudo-expertComment
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Thanks Frank for your input. However i still would like to post some interesting pictures from 2 AS marked PAB's and one LW Flak badge with characteristic for AS setup.Originally posted by Frank Heukemes
Picture#1 PAB#1 obverseLast edited by robert60446; 04-07-2007, 06:31 AM.Comment
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