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**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:17 PM

Picture#4 PAB#2 reverse

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:18 PM

Picture#5 Eagle details from PAB#1 and PAB#2

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:20 PM

So we know that eagles are identical.
Picture#6 Grass details from PAB#1 and PAB#2

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:22 PM

Grass pattern is different (no big deal, we know that AS got 4 grass patterns).
Picture#7 maker mark's

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:23 PM

Perfect match for MM.
Picture#8, hinge from PAB#1 and PAB#2

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:25 PM

Ball hinge is different here (one is flat from the top). Interesting.
Picture#9 Hinge from PAB#1 and PAB#2 (left side)

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:28 PM

The ball hinges are different, but finish at the top of the pin is identical from this side of view!

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:32 PM

So we know, that even with different ball hinges, there is common link between these two "setups": finish at the top of the pin. Now let's compare this two ball hinges from PAB's with ball hinge from LW Flak badge.

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:36 PM

As we can see the pin "top edge finish" is missing from LW Flak badge. Let me post here reverse shot from LW Flak badge for reference.

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:37 PM

Now, let's go back to the PAB's. Here are shots from catch from PAB#1 and PAB#2.

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:42 PM

Let me point out small differences here: 1) PAB#1 catch is "more" sharper ended and 2) pin from PAB#1 is not sharp, however both pins are almost identical from the point where sharpening started.

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:47 PM

Now the two PAB's catches with LW FLak catch (1st from right). Please note, that the start point for pin "sharpening" is different on the LW Flak pin...

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 07:59 PM

So let me loudly think about it for the moment, we have 2 PAB's made by the same manufacturer with many common points in "setup" area. And really the "common points" similarities are amazing. And on the other hand i have LW Flak badge with similar but different rear setup. The Flak badge ball hinge finish and pin finish are slightly different from PAB's and there are no common points from PAB's here. It is kind of surprise for me, because i was always in believe that this type of LW Flak was indeed manufactured by Adolf Scholze...after seeing these pictures i'm not that sure anymore...I would love to see detailed pictures of "pin - catch" setup AS (without the triangle) marked PAB's, maybe we could learn something new...or maybe finally we could say that these AS only marked PAB's (no triangle) are really made by Adolf Scholze...<o =""></o>

**Don D.** · 07-13-2005, 08:17 PM

Thanks for the pics Robert. This is exactly what I am getting at. We know both Adolf Scholtze and A.D. Schwerdt made PABs. We know many manufacturers shared obverse designs to to seperate makers we have to (in my mind) look to the reverse setups. Different tools, techniques, and materials will set them apart.

Why do we assume that all AS marked badges are made by the same manufacturer? Why would a maker mark change so drastically several times (AS triangle, A.S., .A.S and A.S. hollow)? Why would reverse setups change only on PABs and not on the other badges marked AS (triangle)?

If we know for sure that AS (triangle) is Adolf Scholze and we know that A.D. Schwerdt made PABs too then it is a logical assumption that if we identify different maker techniques on an AS (not triangle ) marked badge then we have a second maker, probably A.D. Schwerdt.
Don

**robert60446** · 07-13-2005, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by ddoering

This is exactly what I am getting at. We know both Adolf Scholtze and A.D. Schwerdt made PABs. We know many manufacturers shared obverse designs to to seperate makers we have to (in my mind) look to the reverse setups. Different tools, techniques, and materials will set them apart.

Why do we assume that all AS marked badges are made by the same manufacturer? Why would a maker mark change so drastically several times (AS triangle, A.S., .A.S and A.S. hollow)? Why would reverse setups change only on PABs and not on the other badges marked AS (triangle)?

If we know for sure that AS (triangle) is Adolf Scholze and we know that A.D. Schwerdt made PABs too then it is a logical assumption that if we identify different maker techniques on an AS (not triangle ) marked badge then we have a second maker, probably A.D. Schwerdt.
Don

Unfortunately at this moment i have no access to the AS only marked (no triangle) PAB. I have to wait until Monday...

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