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**Frank Heukemes** · 08-19-2002, 04:13 PM

Well, Claudio, the answer is before your eyes, just look at the "wear". It is EXACTLY in the same places as on Schönbeck´s pics and also EXACTLY in the same places as in my pics. A little bit disturbing, don´t you think?

And, allow me these questions:

How can a badge have wear if it comes in the cellophan-tüte???

Why would a maker produce a badge with artificial wear that is there in the die from day one?

Cheers, Frank H.

**Klaus O.** · 08-19-2002, 04:38 PM

Dear Frank,

Actually the badge seems never have been worn (the reverse especially). Just the quality is very bad and since zinc badges are deteriorating much more quickly than other materials, I thought such badge might have been real.

If you were me, would you send it back to Detlev? I always keep the bills, just in case! To tell you the truth, I never liked it from the first day when I received it. Some things look much better on catalogue's picture than in real life!

Grüss Dich!

Ciao,

Claudio

**Frank Heukemes** · 08-19-2002, 05:02 PM

Dear Claudio,

If you weren´t satisfied with it from the very first day because it didn´t appeal to you, you should have returned it back then. In my experience, Detlev has no problem with that. Now, you even have a reason. I think Detlev will understand and maybe he will comment on this. Let us know.

Cheers, Frank H.

**James Clark** · 08-19-2002, 05:15 PM

Just a general observation: if a badge or medal comes with a packet or case it means absolutely nothing. It could be a fake badge in a genuine packet or a real medal in a fake case etc etc.

Only exception as a guide to authenticity might be a badge in a SEALED cellophane packet (unless the whole lot was fake).

**Javier D. Garcia** · 08-19-2002, 06:35 PM

Hi,

I got the same badge from Detlev some time ago and returned it. I don´t know if it´s original or not... but if I don´t like a badge I returned it and that´s all.
You´re lucky because you bought it from Detlev and you´ll have no problem if you want to return it.

Cheers,

Javier.

**Chet Sowersby** · 08-20-2002, 07:09 PM

Questionable IAB in cellophane wrapper

Presently there is a very similar badge listed on the site of Jessen's Relics. It also comes with a packet and the similar wear that is shown all through this thread.

**Tony Barto** · 08-21-2002, 08:03 AM

I'm baffled! Comes in a bag already broke in!

**hawksy** · 08-21-2002, 01:45 PM

I don't normaly comment on things like this, being a new collector , but i would not have a badge like that in my collection if it was fake or not.
I hope i don't offend you Claudio, but it looks like it came out of some kids lucky bag.

I could never believe that sort of workmanship would come from the Germans. Send it back Claudio, i don't care when you bought it

lee.

**Calvin Hall** · 08-21-2002, 06:39 PM

I once owned the same IAB with bag some time back. The quality of the badge was such that it had no place in my collection. I got rid of it long ago.

I agree with Lee's logic: A badge of this quality, regardless of whether or not it is an original wartime manufacture piece, is not desirable.

Calvin

**Detlev Niemann** · 08-22-2002, 02:19 AM

Dear Claudio.
I must have written this now a lot of times,but it's always good to repeat it.Wether or not a badge is original or not you should only have items in your collectionw hich you like to look at.If you receive something you are by looks,touch,smells,taste not happy with,always return it.I have no problems with that as I collect myself and would handle it the same way.As this is a cheap item you may keep it as a token of bad memory and I will just write the amount you have payd good to your card,credit,scheck..
regards
detlev

**Klaus O.** · 08-22-2002, 03:42 AM

Dear Detlev,

The only reason I didn't send it back immediately to you is that I wasn't completely sure about its authenticity and I didn't want to bother you by sending back. I know that you never make any problems with returned items, no questions asked. That's why I am such a good customer of yours since years.

I just felt to show also my piece on the forum, because I still believed that the "Infanterie-Sturmabzeichen" you sold me was still good, also if I didn't have a good feeling (sometimes we "want" bad our collectibles to be all original).

Thank you very much for your unrivalled comprehension and cooperation. I appreciate it every time I am making business with you!

mit besten Sammlergrüssen,

Claudio Ortelli

**Frank Heukemes** · 08-22-2002, 06:28 AM

Dear Detlev,

Please understand that the obvious fact that all the three identical items pictured in this thread show the VERY same traces of wear on EXACTLY the same spots has confused many collectors here. These badges apparently looked like this from day one. We appreciate your good service in taking back badges we do not like but if possible we would like to learn and hear your comments why you think this is an original badge.

Cheers, Frank H.

**Tim Curley** · 08-22-2002, 09:35 AM

Infantry Assault Badges of this exact design are regularly offered in the well known Kansas City auction. That is one more big RED flag against it. Caveat emptor.

**Detlev Niemann** · 08-22-2002, 09:37 AM

Hi Frank.
Poor quality was produced.Sometimes stores have survived,found in attics,cellars or even ground dug.Beside the badge being of poor quality and details I had no problems with them.I'm still not persuaded that these are copies,but won't sell any from now on to wait until we have some more background.Usually I'm in the position to learn by other dealers,collectors who is producing what.For legal reasons I can't put any name into writing.So for at least 2 years since I have seen this bunch I haven't heard any comments hinting in the direction of any of the known remakers.It's so easy to condemm and most often it comes more easy to badmouth an item than to say "I don't know".But this is a great place to exchange opinions.
see you
detlev

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