Honour Goblet

[Bill Schwarz]

Hi, my name is Bill. I have been a member of the Forum for awhile. I normally don't post, I usually just lurk. But I need help. I am looking for information about Honour Goblets. I have just come across one that is for sale privately. I don't know much about the value, or what to look for. I am hoping someone can help me out. The name on the goblet is Oberfeldwebel Will Dohring AM 26-2-43.
It is not stamped silver. The makers mark is identical as in the description from this website. EEINSILBER (alpaka) Auflage
Jow.wagner&sohn
I weighed it on a battery powered digital scale and it came up as 365 grams. It is heavily tarnished. The impressions of the eagles and iron cross can be seen on the inside. Can anyone give me a price range of what this might be worth, or anything about the recipient? Any other information that you can share would be appreciated. Seller is going to email pictures to me, but I don't have the capability of posting them. Thanks in advance, Bill.

[Dez H]

Hi Bill

Have you read the excellent article on this website by Paul Williams and François saez?
http://wehrmacht-awards.com/honor_aw...blet/first.htm

It is most interesting and well worth a read.


You may also be interested in this for price comparison and pictures, John Ihnotic over at Leisure Galleries has a Luftwaffe Honour Goblet awarded to Heinrich Kamper. This is listed at $5495.

http://www.leisuregalleries.com/kamper.html


Dez

[Stijn David]

honour goblet

Hello,


First of al let me say welcome, Bill has already given some good advice to read the article written by our beloved asso members " Saez & Williams "

Is it possible to have some pictures on this one ? => if you receive them i wil happily post them for you ( email : theodorscherer@hotmail.com ) , so we can see in wich grade it is tarnished, etc ... ?

Regarding the value, i have seen that these goblets seem in high demand and that prices are mostly on the rather high side, it is a Alpaca piece so that wil lower the value when comparing towards a real silver goblet.

Price also depends if it is damaged ( any dents, etc ??? ) + who was the recipient offcoarse, a person who has earned further fame on the battlefield and tehrefore was awarded higher grades of awards wil add the value , are there documents present, etc .. .


I have found already the following on Willy dohring ,

* German cross in Gold on 17.06.1943 ( as a Oberfeldwebel while serving with 1./ KG 55 ( Greif ) )

so he was a German cross holder , anyone else who can add anything ? regarding the recipient .

Forman's last guide shows the Alpaca type for estimated about 3000 US $ , then again some dealers are offering these for much higher prices ( see the above post ) , + when you are lucky you can find one for less , i would say for a alpaca between 2500 US $ and 3000 US $ depending of the condition .


Friendly Greetings,

[Stijn David]

pictures honour goblet

Hello,


These pictures are posted for Bill Schwarz and he wants your opinion on this piece , so please help him out ( the pictures are not the best available and i have asked him already to get better pictures but i think we can get a idea on this particular piece meanwhile )

Friendly Greetings ,

[Stijn David]

honour goblet pic. 2

Hello,


Here is the second picture .


Friendly Greetings,

[François SAEZ]

Some points to consider when you are proposed an Honor Goblet:

a) Is the Goblet cased or not - knowing that a case for an Ehrenpokal is much harder to find than a case for a RK - so, often more expensive - fakes exist
b) Is the goblet silver or Alpaka?
c) Is the doc coming with the goblet?
Note here: the goblet is one of the few awards where the name of the recipient is both on the award and on the doc - which means it is always better to have both of them as a matching set - a goblet with is matching doc will always be more interesting than a goblet with a non matching doc, in other words, a matching set is often more expensive than the price for the goblet + the price for the doc.
If you really look for details, you can search for the proper ehrenlist (please see the qarticle for info).
d) Do you have a pic of the recipient or can you find one?
e) What was the unit of the recipient - night fighters are bette than transport.
What did the unit at this time, what front was the unit engaged?
f) Did he survived the war? what is is last rank? What rank he had when received the goblet?
g) he was what? Pilot, observer, airgunner.....
h) What other medal he had
.../...
You see some questions before buying

For the one you are proposed:
Alpaka, not cased, no doc
Willi Döhring
Honor Goblet as Oberfeldwebel, Pilot, on 15.03.43
German cross in Gold on 17.06.1943 ( as a Oberfeldwebel while serving with 1./ KG 55 ( Greif )

Palmares of the unit
950 Honor goblet
357 DK
1997 EKI
2380 EKII
46 KVKI
1165 KVK II

I don't want to take all the fun if you buy it
But for sure, some books to look for info:

* Maybe I missed him but I didn't see his name in the casualities of the unit

[François SAEZ]

another book to check, giving a lot of info on the unit, written in French

[François SAEZ]

some emblems of the unit
Starting 2nd first row 'from left) to second (included), second row from left