Imperial Austrian & Westwall Medal Bar

[JasonA]

Thanks so much, Don. Here you go. These were the best I could do, so I hope they're helpful. Perhaps my enrollment in a photog class wouldn't hurt...



Best regards,

J-

[JasonA]

Two more...top down and right oblique.

J-

[Don D.]

Still not a fan of it. See these threads and compare the construction, materials, reverse hardware etc....

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=austrian

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=austrian

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=austrian

[JasonA]

Thanks, Don. My personal opinion after all is said and done is that the medals themselves are originals but that the construction and reverse components seem to match those established post-war assembled bars referenced.

If I'm wrong about the medals themselves, don't hesitate to let me know.

It will be interesting to see what McCulloh has to say after the revised pictures (if they helped any). But you, Wayne and Pierce have all weighed in on this piece conclusively enough, so, I feel like we're back to the same conclusion as before.

Best regards,

Jason

[Chris Taylor]

In addition to what the others have said, it also looks to me as though the 1914-18 Service Medal, (2nd to last, next to the West Wall), has the wrong ribbon on it.

It should look more like the ones pictured below (for ribbon bar & medal), with thinner lines along the edges & 2 slightly wider stripes in the middle (although my medal example has faded from the original red to more of an orange hue):

[JasonA]

Hey Chris,

Thanks for the feedback. I think one of your peers also made that observation.

Back to the drawing board for me on this one!

Best regards,

Jason

[McCulloh]

Well, I am less confident in it being original now that I can see the back and the catch better. Nonetheless, the lack of an HKx is pretty sophisticated fakery. That is esoteric knowledge. It seems to match the awful bar posted on 12/30 perfectly though.
Still, I'd love to actually hold it and feel it. It looks very mint, but sometimes these things were just put away for 80 years.
How's the westwall medal?

[Don D.]

I think you give this faker too much credit. It is probably just the cheap awards he had available at the time and has nothing to do with a deep knowledge of the regs. He builds large bars using cheap awards, real and fake. That, and given he is an Austrian, he probably doesn't even think of the Hindy too often. Very few Austrian vets applied for it in the limited time that they were allowed to.

[McCulloh]

That's my point.
Vollm. is highly aware of what sells on the market. He "talks" to some reputable replica dealers about what sells and also takes special orders. (Yup- I have seen the receipts no less). He also sells on EBay so he must be watching what sells there as well.
Ten years ago he did not know the regulations., now-in no small aprt because of us, he does. Ten years ago you could spot British made fake bars easily, because they followed the British order of precedence: gallantry, campaign, LS, Jubilee.

I have also bought bars sold to me as Vollmeister creations which were=perfect=. Indeed Stogie, Rick and I all poured over one bar for the better part of 30 minutes trying to find a flaw. in the end I bought it and Rick said, "Well, if bar makers have gotten that good, give it up, becuase that one has no flaws at all. " It might have been the best bargain I ever got, since it had a CO and REO on it. I assume it was a real one , " pattern" that got mixed up in kellys' shipment, but if it wasn't, well , see ricks' comments above.

The folded over ribbons are tricky to do. There is a trick to them and most sewers can not do it . This is a "lost art" in the 21st century.

The absence of the HKx on an Austrian bar is REALLY esoteric knowledge. There were maybe @10 of us here who were aware of it (because of Rick L.'s comments about that Bandmeister photo I pointed out) before this thread?

Most collectors are not Austrian collectors, but TR collectors. TR bars bring a premium, Austrian bars do not. If that bar was missing a westwall, it would be worth @ $100-$150 at best, which is only a little more than the cost of the medals themselves (@$15-$25 each), so why bother taking the time to sew and fix such a bar for a $50 profit? I suppose if you have the time and inclination it's ok to do this, but frankly, most fakers want a bigger score for their efforts (IMHO). There's always some idiot who will buy an "SS officers' bar" on EBay.

[JasonA]

Hey guys,

Not that it changes the concensus that this is a post-WWII put together bar, but just wanted to let McCulloh know that the ribbons did not glow under a black light. Tested it today.

Thanks one final time for everybody who lended their expertise here.

Best regards,

Jason