Medal Ribbons

[Richardxyz]

I was thinking about ribbons, and recall some time ago there was such a discussion regarding ribbons cut with tailoring scissors giving that zig zag cut to the material.

Is it better to have original ribbon with that worn look or to have one cut with a tailor's scissors? Or does it make no difference, after all the medal itself is the main focus of attention.

I have a mixture in my collection and was wondering if the newer ribbon is from original war stock, ribbon produced for 57' issue medals or whether it is something different again. I would appreciate any comments.

[Dez H]

G'day Richard
Recently I posed this exact same question to the forum regarding my concerns of ribbons with the crinkle cut.

To quote Bill M on this matter from the previous thread:

Regarding the 'crinkle-cut'. These were done with 'Pinking Shears', which have been available to tailors and such for at least a hundred years (Grandma was a seamstress ). I wouldn't worry too much about that.

I would personally rather a ribbon with a bit of wear, scuffing and soiling. Shows age and character. The fact that someone actually wore this in battle is much more appealing to me than minty packeted pieces that never saw any action at all. Still this boils down to personal taste and what you like. The only person you have to please with your collection is yourself. Be happy with what you collect and enjoy it.



Dez

[Richardxyz]

Dez,

Thanks for the answer, do you think that the ribbon you have displayed ( I have one just like it ) is original to the third reich period and in unused condition?

Richard

[Rick Research]

Richard: the simplest answer to whether a ribbon is from the period or not is to blacklight it. No original ribbon will flash bright electric blue glow in the dark from its white areas. Ever.

Other colors change shades quite properly, but if the white glows vivid electric blue, it is postwar.

No original ribbon from that period will do this. Ever. Rick

[Macmedal]

As this is my first post just a hello to all out there. I have been only collecting for a couple of years and I am really glad to have found such a forum. I have to say it is EXCELLENT and I only wish I had found it earlier.

I have several ribbons in my collection that have been crinkle cut and I have always been doubtful with regards their authenticity. However I was really suprised when I placed them under a UV light recently as only one turned out to be repro and all the others are original and in mint condition. So it shows that you just never no until you test them properly.

[Richardxyz]

Thank you for the feedback. I am aware of the back light test, but if a medal 'passes' the backlight test it does not necessarily mean that its of war time production it just proves that it isn't a reproduction. It could in theory still be a reproduction or, at least a ribbon made for a de-nazified medal that was issued much later, do these pass the backlight test?

[Macmedal]

As far as I am aware the UV black light test can be used on cloth and textiles as well as other items such as paper to assist in determining age.

Most paper made before the the mid 1940's era rarely fluoresces under a black light. Paper products made since 1950, however generally fluoresces brightly due to large amounts of chemical bleaches and dyes.

The same goes for textiles made since mid 1940's. Anything that contains synthetic fibres will fluoresce. Therefore any medal ribbon that glows (especially white areas) has to be considered suspect. Be aware that items can be contaminated by modern detergents and fibres.

But as far as ribbons are concerned.

If it glows/fluoresces it was made AFTER 1945.

[Rick Research]

I have one WW2 veteran's Bundesmarine ribbon bar, and the ribbons do not glow. It probably dates about 1960.

A Karl Loy ribbon sample fold out booklet from the 1960s that contains about 200 ribbons (this is permanently posted on the Reference Forum back about last November or December) only has 17 ribbons that glow. It still had sample cuts of some old little used imperial ribbon stock that was left over in silk, so presumably the modern dyes were just gradually being introduced then, as needed. No date on this, probably late 1960s as I recall, about 1968 or so.

[James Clark]

Just to back up Rick's point, I have one pair of EKII plus blue ribbon with 1957 pattern Mineweepers badge in the 1957 form. The white on the EKII ribbon doesn't glow under UV.

[Macmedal]

With regards the 1957 medal ribbons. What you will find is that the manufacturers that made the early 1957 awards where the same manufacturers that made wartime awards. Many of the early 1957 awards used parts from wartime stock as well as using original dies for parts i.e. RK etc.

It is more than likely therfore that many early 1957 awards used original wartime stock medal ribbons as the ribbons used were the same. This probably covers why they do not glow under a black light especially as you mention the ribbons were from late 50's early 60's pieces. Dont forget that 1957 awards were manufactured right up to the late 80's early 90's. The later pieces being pretty poor quality and the ribbon by then would be modern synthetic reproduction.

The black light test is not infallable although and it is possible that modern materials will not glow. But this is unusual especially with ribbons, as reproduction ribbons use synthetic fibres.

Just my theory and I will probably stand corrected.