Jump smock eagles

[Jan43]

I´re right Steve by closer examination I can see the backing are woven differently and turned in direction. Funny I owned this lovely eagle and I remember it excatly like the other one like John showed, which I also had one of and just sold, but thanks for your sharp eye steve.
I don´t know about the size, but it is for sure the same eagle pattern, so it would seem odd if they were different in size, but have you compared such two eagles of the same pattern but slightly different backing before Steve?

Best Jan

[SMP]

II don´t know about the size, but it is for sure the same eagle pattern, so it would seem odd if they were different in size, but have you compared such two eagles of the same pattern but slightly different backing before Steve?

Best Jan

I measured it against an accepted smock eagle of similar type . It was noticeably smaller ( and more blue). I believe I sold it to Willi. Maybe he could measure it for us ?

[Jan43]

The eagle you showed is actually not exactly the same pattern, but they are close related. I call the eaglepattern John and I have shown "Beauty" but the one you just showed is it´s nerdy cousin/ancestor "Beauty no head and low collar"(Shown below in a Hbt version) This eagler pattern turns up much earlier that the "Beauty" pattern. That´s probably why they are different in size.
Best Jan

[Jan43]

(just for ref.).
The latest and youngest member in the "Beauty" family, which I call "Bad Beauty" because of it´s bad leg and head. This pattern seems to surface in the mid- later month of 44. mostly on a tan ribbed cotton backing.

The "Beauty" family probably never came in a Subdued version, and stayed white and light gray until the end.

[Jan43]

To get a little close to the truth about the eagles in question, I think it would be a good idea to examine
and discuss the LW Subdued Breast eagles(Cloth).
If anyone have any comments or addition info or photos to add to this examination please feel free to step forward
and give your contribution to the discussion.

There are 4 eagle patterns that comes in a true subdued version.

First the pattern we all know. Which are the most used Subdued eagle on primerily all LWSmocks(Camouflage clothing) , latewar Para Jump smocks and FD Jackets from about mid-44 and forward.
The Thin green Subdued smooth cotton backed.
Among those firms who use this version on their late war Jumpsmocks are,
Polish firm Rbnr 0/1337/0015, Brandenburg Kleiderfabrik -/0042, Firm ? Rbnr. 0/0280/0948 and several unmarked smocks only sizemarked and some unmarked.



Among those firms who use this version on their late war FD Jackets are,
Franz Weck 0/0250/0908, Firm Rbnr. 0/0280/0948, Firm Rbnr 250/207.



Although as we have seen in rare case, it can turn up on LW Green 4 pocket tunics.


------------------------------------------------------------

The next pattern which I call ”Harmony”, its Subdued HBT version always turns up LW Outerclothing latewar Jump smocks and FD Jackets.
A Subdued ”Harmony” cut from the uniform is VERY hard to find. Here are one where you really can see how dark it is, compared to the white back thread.



Exanple of the well known Maker F.Habelt 0/0708/0001 1945 Jump smocks.


FD Jackets were Rbnr 250/207 are among the Makers that use this variation.
(Notice on the Zigzag sewpattern are very wide apart between the stitches on both of these from 250/207).




Another




”Harmony”´s White HBT version. Mostly for LW Green HBT 4 pocket tunics.


””Harmony” Have a Subdued wool version, which I never seen original applied to any uniform yet.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then there is a faily rare and not so used Subdued HBT eaglepattern, which here are original sewn also to a FD Jacket(Firm?).




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And then there is the Subdued version in question, which clearly also is a subdued eagle, (showed here besides it´s gray and white and GM Version)
It is worth noteting that this eagle type haven´t yet been seen on LW flight jackets, and that goes
for the this exact eagle pattern also. However this eagle pattern are seen on Jump smocks, f.eks. the Green GM eagle shown, and on Willis post 617 shown on a piece of Splinter Jump smock fabric.
Best Jan

[Jan43]

Hi All
Like the eagles in question(Which eagle pattern I call "Funny beak") have a GM version, I will for good order sake add "Harmony"´s GM version for jump smocks to the examination.
I hope it´s allright that I use what I believe is your eagle/smock Steve
Any chance you could tell us what marking there are on this very nice smock ?
Based on what I see I would guess a date around the first half of 44.

Best Jan

[SMP]

"Any chance you could tell us what marking there are on this very nice smock ?"


Sorry Jan, The markings are indistinct.

[Jan43]

Thanks a lot Steve
I thought it might be that one.
What do you think the symbol which looks like an o or 0 to the right stands for?

I have an other smock on file Sumpf same fabric though dated 44 with what looks like an A on the right of the 2 B (2 B A 44).

Best Jan

[Jan43]

Hi All
There´s been a lot of views on this thread but,
there are still no replies about the true subdued eagles question I asked !! Does this mean that no one can find or know of any original sewn true subdued cloth breast eagles to any other uniforms that the ones I´ve shown?
I´m asking because I myself can´t find any evidence on these being used on other uniforms other than the allready mentioned and shown.


I can see I haven´t answered Willis question in post ”Why aren´t some subdued” directly, so here it is more clearly. The jump smock eagles Willi showed in comparison with ”my Eagles”(”Funny beak”) are all of the ”Beauty” Eagle pattern, and as I said in a later post, the Maker of the specific ”Beauty” pattern never made a true Subdued vesion of ”Beauty”, although they evolved it into the later and probably last pattern on tan fabric(”Bad Beauty”) which went on to the end. Best Jan

[Jan43]

Hi all
Hmmm If no one can find any additional exambles of true subdued eagles on other uniforms, and if it really is the case, then the final conclusion about what the true natue of the use of subdued breast eagles is pretty obvious, if it should be based on simple logic, then all the LW true Subdued cloth breast eagles were primerily intended for use on Camouflage Outer clothing, Jumpsmocks and FD Jackets.

Compared to the other eagle patterns which also have a subdued version, it could be suggested that the Subdued eagle in question(Funny beak) were the only one of these specific types eagles specifically intended for use on LW outer camouflage clothing, where the white and gray could be intended for inner clothing Fliegerblouses etc. but this doesn´t exclude the possibillity that these also could be used on outer camouflageclothing too.

Best Jan

[Jan43]

Hi All
I want to correct my statement about when the green subdued LW helm decal appeared, as this of cause can´t be
at such a late date, as the application of decals on all helmets in general where dropped after the 28th of August 1943.
If the green decals are originals, on which there seems to be some controversy about, then there would
be a precedents of subdued insignia from this early date(Compared to subdued LW cloth insignia on uniforms).

There are of cause also the precedents of subdued Heer insignia, which could have and influence on LW insignia, but I unfortunately don´t know anything about these, so if anyone have comment about this it would be welcome and greatly appreciated.

Best Jan

[all1knew]

Para and Field Division.

[SMP]

Para and Field Division.

Two very nice eagles . Congrats !

[Jan43]

Hi Wiliam
Yes very nice eagles, again both are interestingly applied with very thin threads. Thanks for showing.

Best Jan

[theta]

Where can I get an original WW2 smock eagle?