slotted bolts on africa helmet

[ROBB]

I saw that tasty helmet on the estand and I was trying to work out which child to sell ( only joking kids) worked out even selling them wouldnt get me 8 big ones . And noticed the slotted bolts in Africa comments . I take it that means they didnt have slotted bolts in Africa ? Just asking . Rob

[Eugenirus]

And one question more: did they have decals on the helmets with slotted bolts? Or they should be all no decal helmets?

[Gran Sasso]

And one question more: did they have decals on the helmets with slotted bolts? Or they should be all no decal helmets?

Yes, they had:

[ROBB]

Thankyou I guess that answers that , a fabulous helmet someone is going to be very happy . Rob

[Eugenirus]

With Gran Sasso's reply I have more questions than before.
When slotted bolts with a venthole were intoduced?
When slotted bolts without a venthole were introduced?
When were the decals stopped being applied? Date? From which batch number?

[M35]

M38 bolts

With Gran Sasso's reply I have more questions than before.
When slotted bolts with a venthole were intoduced?
When slotted bolts without a venthole were introduced?
When were the decals stopped being applied? Date? From which batch number?

Eugenius

I think it is likely that the DD M38 in that period photo had replaced bolts. In my opinion, the slotted bolts did not appear until 1941 or so, after the order to drop the national colors decal from helmets in 06/40. August of 1943 is when the directive for no decals was issued.

One thing I have never figured out for sure is whether the aluminum slotted bolts with the vent hole came before the aluminum slotted bolts without the vent hole, or vice versa. I am certain that the slotted steel bolts with no vent hole were the last design.

Cheers,
Terry

[John Hodgin]

One thing I have never figured out for sure is whether the aluminum slotted bolts with the vent hole came before the aluminum slotted bolts without the vent hole, or vice versa.

Cheers,
Terry

Hi Terry. IMHO the slotted and vented was the earlier design.

[blau250]

Hi Terry. IMHO the slotted and vented was the earlier design.

Of course... like many other industry process applied to German helmets during WW2. Production process simplification saving production costs as well. Always the same rule in helmets, uniforms, etc...

[M35]

Bolts

Hi Terry. IMHO the slotted and vented was the earlier design.

Thanks for the reply John. For many years I thought the same thing. Recently, I have begun to wonder though, based on 2 observations that I have made:

1) You see many more SD M38's with solid slotted aluminum bolts than you do with slot/vent aluminum bolts, and
2) You often see the slot/vent alum bolts in conjunction with 2 solid slotted steel bolts in the rear of the helmet

These things make me think the solid slotted alum bolt came first, since you see so many more of those. Someone then realized it was an oversight to leave out the vent hole and the next design included vent holes again.

Just some thoughts, we may never know for sure.

Would love to hear thoughts from other M38 guys like Willi, Steve, Larry, Norm, et al!

Cheers,
Terry

[Willi Z.]

Hmmm, tough call. I believe the slotted aluminum bolts with vent holes predated the slotted solid aluminum bolts. My theory is that they wanted to replace the steel spanners with aluminum because of the rust issue, but wanted to at first retain the ability to "vent" the helmet. Many FJ veterans I have spoken to complained at how hot wearing these helmets was. It might have then been decided to reduce the exrta step in manufacturing the bolts, so the vents were done away with.

I certainly agree we can encounter very late helmets with ventilated aluminum bolts on the sides, and steel slotted bolts on the rear. One theory was that they had extra ventilated aluminum bolts left when these helmets were manufactured, so they used up the existing stock with a 50/50 mix.

I think we just encounter more slotted aluminum bolts on helmets because production of the ventilated pattern must have ceased early on (mid war).

I have no facts to support a challenge of the assertion that the aluminum bolts first came out in 1941, but that seems too early to me.

[Willi Z.]

Btw, I would really have to have a close look at the lettering on the top.

[DennyB]

I am sure that you all know much more than I do but it was my understanding that the slotted with ventholes was the later version after complaints of no air circulation with the slotted non-vented ones.

[WalterB]

Thanks for the reply John. For many years I thought the same thing. Recently, I have begun to wonder though, based on 2 observations that I have made:

1) You see many more SD M38's with solid slotted aluminum bolts than you do with slot/vent aluminum bolts, and
2) You often see the slot/vent alum bolts in conjunction with 2 solid slotted steel bolts in the rear of the helmet

These things make me think the solid slotted alum bolt came first, since you see so many more of those. Someone then realized it was an oversight to leave out the vent hole and the next design included vent holes again.

Just some thoughts, we may never know for sure.

Would love to hear thoughts from other M38 guys like Willi, Steve, Larry, Norm, et al!

Cheers,
Terry

I have personally subscribed to the hypothesis that the evolution of the FJ bolts is (a) spanner bolts (steel), (b) slotted/spanner bolts (aluminum), (c) solid slotted bolts (aluminum), and (d) solid slotted bolts (steel).

I rely on this hypothesis based, in part, on the expertise of knowlegeable individuals such as Ludwig Baer (based on his book), Willi Zahn and John Hodgin, and in part, on personal observations of authentic examples. In addition, if one thinks of the manufacturing evolution (some would say regression), as a result of wartime pressures, this hypothesis is bolstered further. It makes intrinsic sense to me that the Germans penchant for over-engineering led them to create the spanner bolt, which as we know, developed a number of problems and was clearly a relatively complicated little item to both manufacture and to install/remove. The slotted/spanner bolt appears to be a compromise, maintaining a degree of function (ventilation) while at the same time helping address the installation/removal issue. Continuing wartime pressures force ET (or its supplier of FJ bolts) to simplify the manufacturing process further by eliminating the vented portion, but at least still producing the bolt in aluminum in order to make it as lightweight as possible (and not adding more to the overall weight of the FJ helmet, which was already an issue). Finally, the solid steel bolt comes in when a certain degree of desperation sets in and actual number of helmets produced takes precedence over quality. We see the effect of wartime pressure affect the evolution/regression in the quality of many German military items, including in the manufacture of cloth uniforms, armament (P38's, MP44's, etc.).

I admit that what Terry points out ("You see many more SD M38's with solid slotted aluminum bolts than you do with slot/vent aluminum bolts") is indeed an interesting observation, which cannot be completely answered. However, let's focus on the following observations/points:

1. ET marked their later produced helmets with the CKL code. Now we should consider how many solid slotted/vented bolts you see on CKL marked helmets and how many solid slotted bolts (aluminum) and solid slotted bolts (steel) you see in CKL marked helmets. Personally, I have seen an overwhelming number of the latter rather than the former, which I think helps supports the hypothesis described above.

2. The number of mint-conditioned SD M38's with solid slotted aluminum bolts is pretty high, which supports the notion that this type of helmet/bolt combination was late war production because batches of these helmets were never actually issued to the troops. As a side note, we should also not ignore the possibility that perhaps a good number of these minty FJ helmets with slotted bolts which survived the war were originally no decalled helmets which received the attention of unscrupulous individuals who had authentic eagle decals added post-war (mind you, I am not saying all SD M38's with solid slotted bolts had eagles added post-war, but let's do admit that this was indeed known to happen (and may continue to happen) and, as a result, may skew the samples).

3. If you look at untouched FJ helmets with slotted/spanner bolts, I think you will see that they will have mid-war liners and chinstrap configurations (come to think of it, I don't believe I have ever seen an FJ helmet with slotted/spanner bolts that had an RB numbered liner and late war chinstraps). On the other hand, and almost invariably, there are a number of untouched FJ helmets with late war liners and late war chinstrap configurations having solid slotted bolts (in both aluminum and steel).

Finally, I also agree with the proposition that the slotted/vented bolt was introduced later than 1941.

As Terry said, we may not ever know for sure. Personally, I continue believing in the hypothesis described above. One thing for sure, it is a fascinating subject!

[John Hodgin]

Superbly well put Walter, and you echo my thinking exactly.

I am also thinking you should write a book.

Regards to all,
John

[SMP]

...........but at least still producing the bolt in aluminum in order to make it as lightweight as possible (and not adding more to the overall weight of the FJ helmet, which was already an issue ).
!

I believe this was more to do with preventing rusted-up bolts than weight saving. After all, aluminium was a scarce resource at the time. Remember - they stopped using it for the liner band !

Back to the helmet in question. Is it nice or not ?

Regards,
Steve