Kreta Title/doc

[DaveJ]

I just got acouple items to share,
Any comments,
Dave

[DaveJ]

PARA Badge

Here is a Juncker marked badge, after going through the treads I feel that it is right(?)

[DaveJ]

And finally His para doc, I nticed that the paper this document is on has a water mark I.H. EPPEN WINSEN 4a

BEHORDENEIGE

The spacing and layout is almost like I typed it,
Dave

[Ian Jewison]

First thing that I notice is that the award of the Kretaband is very early! Most appear to be mid 1943.....

I recognise the name and I am sure I had a gold wound badge to a Gutowski (dated early 1942)...I will try and find out if it was the same guy!

/Ian

[DaveJ]

That would be neat if it was, I am sure this guy had a few documents that were split up,
Dave

[Eric Queen]

Is it me, or does the control number on the FSA award document seem awfully high. It was my understanding that the control numbers on the early award docs for the para badge ( in DIN A4 format ), were sequential, and reflected the actual number awarded to that point ( as did the formal document for the army para badge )

Here are some examples ( of some that I and other friends own )

Nov. 1936 / # 99

Juli 1938 / # 599

Sept. 1938 / # 971 ( A. Uhlig )

Sept. 1939 / # 1383 ( JYN )

Dec. 1939 / # 1799 ( JYN )

Nov. 1940 / # 9200 ( PK )

It seems a bit odd that one just 3 months after Prospers is suddenly at # 69322. This is more than twice the number of trained paratroopers that the Germans ever had.

Did they change the way the control numbers were assigned in early 1941, no longer issuing them in sequence ?

Can we pin-point the exact time the DIN A5 format docs ( for the FSA ) were introduced. I would think sometime in early 1941.

EQ

[Stijn David]

Numbering on Document

Hello eric,


i can add a little Info for your research => please add the number

11474 : awarded FJ badge on 30.11.1940


Cordial greetings,

ps : sorry iff this is in no direct relarion towards this thread

[DaveJ]

How does everything else look? Does anyone have a para doc dated early 41? I can only say signature is old faded ink. I do not know why the number is high unless they changed format, or it is made up?
Dave

[Willi Z.]

Several of mine have the number blacked out. Others have numbers 6217 (28 Sep 40) and 5273 (also 28 Sep 40). One dated 29 Juni 43 has the number of "VI".

Willi

[DaveJ]

That is interesting, I have seen a few in books with the numbers blacked out, might have been yours, I would not be surprised. it is also interesting that the two dated the same have numbers so far a part.
Does the kreta title and document look okay? The juncker marked badge has a replaced catch but it was done pretty well. I bought all of the items together and if the title looks good and the kreta doc does too, then even if there is a problem with the para doc I am still feeling okay.
Dave

[Eric Queen]

Dave,

I am not saying there is anything wrong with the document. I was just making the observation that the control number seemed high to me. There could very well be a logical explanation for it.

Does anyone else have a DIN A4 format doc from 1941? If so could you please share the date and control number? It might be interesting to take a look at this.

EQ

[DaveJ]

I was just discussing the control number question and came up with maybe they changed the system at some piont to put a control number on a document, that was the control number and not the number for the paratrooper. The number before if researched could have come up to be a glider pilot, and the one after, an air gunner? for example.
What do you think?

[RPN]

Hi Dave

This article may add to the discussion at this point ... although it does not address para docs. The part about doc numbering is towards the bottom of the first page.

BTW, my one para badge doc 'number' is "V111 / 42", ie it was awarded in the eight month of 1942.

Regards
Paul

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/war_...ents/index.htm

[Willi Z.]

Paul, now I know why 1 of my documents has "VI/43" on it. Not a number, but as you discussed, a matter of the document being issued in June of '43. So, it would appear that the numbering system stopped at some point before yours. So, to be able to state that we know exactly how many attended Fallschirmschule based on those numbers, is no longer a valid conclusion.

Willi

[DaveJ]

So it would seem that at some piont, I would guess around maybe Sep of 1940, the para document numbering changed to conform with the rest of the luft documents? Basing this on the fact that 28 sep 1940 two documents almost 1000 numbers apart were issued, I would not think they could qualify that number of people.
Dave