Hungarian Masters Paratrooper Badge

[Eric Queen]

Does any really know what constitutes an original one of these?

From everything I have heard/read, the feature sets of originals are as follows. Is this correct?

1. There is no space between the twigs at the bottom of the wreath, and the wreath itself.

2. The flat prongs (on the revers of the badge which hold the badge to the tunic) do not over lap. They are about 1/3 shorter than the prongs on the fakes.

3. The prongs which hold the chute/wings to the wreath are not long and bent over.

4. No maker mark

5. No control/issue number stamped on the prongs

6. Also heard something about the shroud lines. That they were not all separated as they came out of the top of the skull.

Can anyone post photos of a confirmed original? Or can anyone confirm that these feature sets are correct?

Thanks

[Eric Queen]

Here's what I mean by the twigs at the bottom. See the space between the twigs and the wreath.

[ottomaton]

http://www.internationalmilitaria.co...ratrooper.html

The article above paints a very grim outlook to possibly finding an original. Notably, it states that for the entire existence of the badge a grand total of 23 were awarded, though more were produced.

I don't think that I would consider buying one without an authentication by someone who had handled an authentic one in the past, even if it passed a series of checklist tests.

[Bob Hritz]

Hello Eric,

I have one, somewhere, similar to the copy you posted. However, I have owned it for some years and it has always been one of those items I look at with a skeptical eye. The friend who sold it to me was very convinced it was original as he nevber pays much and does a lot of digging. Of course, he is less than infallible, although impeccably honest.

What is most interesting is that I took it to the last MAX Show held in Monroeville, PA, and an American collector/dealer of Hungarian decent was all over me, claiming it was a fake, but trying to buy it from me, for a cheap price. He kept telling me is was a 'one off' fake and is very close to the original, which of course he had with him.

I just put it under the table at the show and have it, packed away, somewhere. I never gave it a lot of thought because of the rarity, I would suspect the chances of it being original are slim and none.

The prongs for uniform attachment do overlap. There was no marking, of any kind, anywhwhere on the badge. The exposed metal items appear to have been either laquered, or gilt, at one time, as there is still a sheen, in some recessed spots. There is plenty of space between the twigs and the wreath. Each shroud line, from the chute to the skull are separate. The clear green enamel is true fired glass enamel. It looks like the one you posted.

The obfuscation of information, on these rare badges is purposeful. I am sure there are unquestionable originals, but doubt many are around. Because few were awarded means nothing. How many were made?

Good luck and I hope you are able to unravel the mystery.

Bob Hritz

[Eric Queen]

Thanks. I took the image I posted above from that article. Its interesting, but he does contradict himself. In one sentence the says " In fact, they are so rare, I have never seen one that I know to be authentic" Then he says "But I have seen original examples in Budapest. The originals are unmarked, the prongs are made from thick brass, the original badge prongs for tunic attachment are 1/3 shorter then the copies. I have never seen any numbers applied to the prongs of the three original First Class Hungarian Paratrooper badges that I have personally handled. On the original First Class Paratrooper badge the small twigs to the bottom of the badge, demonstrate no spaces between the twigs and badge frame" So, difficult to tell if he has ever seen/held a real example or not. He does say a couple times that the space between the twigs, the overlaping of the reverse prongs, etc. are features unique to the fakes.

Has anyone ever seen a known fake where the twigs were not seperated from the wreath?

[Eric Queen]

Thanks for the info Bob. I know who you're talking about, and that seems to be his MO.

I would like to put this one out there for opinions.

The photos are horrible (my digital camera does not have a good lense), but I think you can make out the basic features.

Notice no space at all between the bottom twigs and the wreath. Its all one piece.

Seperately applied skull.

Another very distinct difference are the shroud lines. On all the bad ones I have seen, ALL the shroud lines are twisted rope. On this one, only the front lines are twisted rope. All the back lines are flat rope.

This was in a collection for a very long time. I know that by itself doesn't mean anything, but I think this one could have a chance.

Again, I wish I have a way to take proper photos of this. The detail is just incredible.

[Eric Queen]

Revese. The prongs are much shorter. The prongs holding the insignia to the wreath are also shorter and thicker as they should be.

of course no maker or controll/issue number on the prongs.

[ottomaton]

I don't know if it is any help but here are photos of a Hungarian Troop-Leader's Badge that I bought from an Austrian dealer which (shameless plug) is for sale on the eStand. It might be helpful for compare/contrast.

[Eric Queen]

Other than RK, is there anyone at all who has a real one of knows what one is supposed to look like?

[Eric Queen]

I wish this one was closer. Too far away to really tell much.

[Lightfoot]

My paratrooper badge

Here´s mine paratrooper badge