Why are sleevebands dead?

[Sal Williams]

I call them sleevebands. Like what the man is wearing below.

Hi Eric,
I wasn't insinuating you were calling them sleevebands incorrectly. just wanted to know what you were talking about.

Thanks, Sal

[Luftm40]

Interesting thread. Our hobby is very fickle isn't it? I think that accounts for the perceptions regarding cuff titles. I often wonder the same thing about document groups. To me, document groups are THE most interesting type of German militaria..the actual awards presented for bravery etc. Yet most dealers consider them white elephants. Doc groups will sell for big bucks to the right buyer, but the market is narrow. I have always attributed this to human nature. The normal weekend collector is reluctant to spend loads of money on a few yellowing slips of paper. They want something more substantial for their money. The same dynamic that drives people toward large size helmets and "heavy" badges. Illogical, but it's kind of the way it works. I think cuff titles fall into the same category. There are very serious collectors out there willing to spend big bucks, but the average collector can't see spending thousands on a strip of cloth cut from a uniform. Not when that money could buy a helmet, sword etc etc etc. Just my 2 cents

[gew98]

To me 99% of anything german WW2 is and has been faked with increasing regularity over the past 15 years. The quality of this fraudulent crap has only gotten better , so why on earth would anyone with sense at all put out goofy money to get a better than 50/50 chance of getting skunked ?. Just short of seeing such things come from mouldy trunks or very dusty closets/basements I would not touch any of it.
I see so many "high end" collector/dealer types using their name to authenticate for sale/resale I have often felt there had to be a good measure of overt interest ( egotistically and monetarily ) in not always bringing to light all the garbage in the hobby.Not all dealers or collectors are boyscouts you must know. So much spurious balogney in this arena I simply walked away from anything WW2 german years ago before I got burned by the high end fake pushers that predominate this venue of collecting anymore.

[Gary Cain]

Eric,

Do you know this mans name? He looks a lot like(and I think reeeeeally a lot!) the man who's photo album and uniform I have.


Gary

Here's another interesting original image to keep the thread going...

[Gary Cain]

Eric,

Do you know this mans name? He looks a lot like(and I think reeeeeally a lot!) the man who's photo album and uniform I have.


Gary

Here's another interesting original image to keep the thread going...

[Eric Queen]

His name is/was Karl Giles

[gijoe002us]

I would like to eventually acquire a couple of fj cuffbands, However I am still in "school" and this class hasnt come up yet. All jokes aside, I have always liked them but have yet to learn about them aside from the history and photos.
I have seen some known reproductions sell at a show some time back, only to be sold as original the following afternoon. They looked pretty convincing when compared to a FJ Rgt cufftitle that I am pretty sure was original, but not positive.
I definately have some studying to do

Cool thread
Joe

[Willi Z.]

Interesting results. More than 50% have said knowing the difference between originals and reproductions is the problem.

Those who do know the difference continue to buy them. I can think of at least a dozen that were sold to just a few FJ collecting buddies this year. I myself have added 3 to my collection this year.

So, how do we get more collectors interested in collecting cufftitles? There is a great book available on them with pages of originals. Forums such as this feature numerous originals. We are all willing to help authenticate them. At large shows such as the SOS many of us are in attendence to help others. But, it seems like the same few are buying them.

[Homer Hodge]

I've asked this question before but so far, I've only heard a speculative response from John and I certainly appreciate his knowledge and experience. Did FJ in Africa ever wear the LW blue AFRIKA cufftitle? I cannot recall ever seeing any photos depicting FJ wearing that cufftitle. What do the other old hands say?

[Willi Z.]

Homer, I have not yet seen a photo. The one I thought I had turned out to be a Luftwaffe Kriegsberichter cuffitle worn by a FJ on a tropical tunic in the summer of 1942. I can't imagine why the FJs would not have worn them, we just need to find a photo. I still think the best chance to find one would be from the Tunisian campaign.

[Homer Hodge]

Willi, Thanks. Part of my curiosity was that I could think of no reason why they would not wear them unless maybe there was some regulation or unit practice that forbade wearing two cuff titles on their right sleeve. But I don't recall too many FJ Regt cuff titles on uniforms in Africa either. Another one of those collector mysteries.....

[Willi Z.]

Homer, I would be highly suspicious of a FJ cufftitle on a tropical tunic. Especially while in North Africa. At home while at the photographers studio, anything is possible. We have even seen FJ cufftitles worn on the wrong sleeve just for studio portraits.

The key element on the Luftwaffe issue Afrika cufftitles is that they were not campaign cufftitles and should not have been worn after the DAK surrendered. HG troops in Sicily might be an exception. But, since elements of the 1st FJD were involved in Sicily and not North Africa, I would not think it would be possbile for them to be seen wearing one.

[Edgar Alcidi]

"There is a great book available on them with pages of originals"

Hi Willi, can you tell me the name of the book?
Regards,
Edgar

[101combatvet]

Rare, to say the least..... my understanding was that all of the HG elements that went to Tunisia were captured or destroyed. Maybe, some personel made it to Sicily... but it must have been few.

Homer, I would be highly suspicious of a FJ cufftitle on a tropical tunic. Especially while in North Africa. At home while at the photographers studio, anything is possible. We have even seen FJ cufftitles worn on the wrong sleeve just for studio portraits.

The key element on the Luftwaffe issue Afrika cufftitles is that they were not campaign cufftitles and should not have been worn after the DAK surrendered. HG troops in Sicily might be an exception. But, since elements of the 1st FJD were involved in Sicily and not North Africa, I would not think it would be possbile for them to be seen wearing one.

[Willi Z.]

"There is a great book available on them with pages of originals"

Hi Willi, can you tell me the name of the book?
Regards,
Edgar

"German Military Cuffbands - 1784 to Present" by Gordon Williamson & Thomas McGuirl. The best reference out there on these. Other books have a couple here and there.