A Truly Honest Seller

[Matt L]

As the world of WWII German Militaria collecting is full of dishonest sellers and so many fakes that we almost have to consult experts on Fora like this one before buying the simplest of items, I think it's important to share the good stories to show that there are definitely honest people out there.

I became acquainted with Vladimir Filipenko (ebaY ID: vlad2308, ePier ID: koshundr) as a result of winning one of his first ebaY auctions for a German identity disc that he found in Volgograd (formerly Stalingrad). Right from the outset, I was very pleased with his items and the way he did business. Over the last year I've bought numerous discs from him and have examined the images of every one of his offerings, and I can say, without a doubt, they're all 100% authentic. Even on the odd occasion that I felt there was a mistake in his one of his auction descriptions (such as misidentifying an abbreviation), Vlad has always made the appropriate corrections so as to ensure the bidders were not unintentionally mislead- something not too many sellers would do.

The real proof of his honesty occurred last night; two of his most recent auctions were for SS identity discs- something he's never had before- but disappointingly, I recognized them right away as being fakes. When I asked about them, Vlad told me that he himself had not found them, but that they had come from a collector he knows. When I explained that I thought they were fakes and why, his reply was that he had absolutely no idea and that he would of course end the auctions immediately- and he did. Now I've encountered many sellers who take great offense when the authenticity of their items is questioned, but Vladimir is not one of them. He ended the auctions despite the fact that one of them had a high bid of over $80, and that he would lose the listing fees he paid- simply because he does not want to cheat anyone and he doesn't want to do anything to damage his reputation. In my mind he's actually improved his reputation significantly, and I would recommend him as a great source without reservation.

Matt

[Mark R]

It certainly is nice to hear of people like this.

I've spoken to a couple of sellers before, who insist their items are original when you mention something obvious (like the fact that there are another 6 people selling the same item with the same markings).

Makes a nice change to hear of people like Vlad.

Let's hope that there are more out there.

Mark.

[Fritz]

Truely a good person that sells identity disks that he most probably took from the graves of soldiers. He is selling their identity for a hand full of dollars. These soldiers will have no more chance to be identified. Families that are still waiting to find out what happened to their relatives will never get the chances to know where the remains of their fathers, husbands. uncles, brothers and friends are. Really, this is indeed something "very good" .

[Gaspare]

Fritz , I can understand your point of view..BUT,most tags for sale are complete. If they were from a proper grave it would only be a half tag.

IF diggers follow the rules and laws and give the information off the tag to the proper agency is has been the only way in which the families have been able to locate MIAs and get a chance to bury their family the right way!..

Matt. , The seller did the right thing by pulling the tags from the auction. They were 100% bad. This happens after a while. Diggers get used to the money then the well eventually runs dry and things like bogus tags start to show up. . OR they trust in other diggers, do some trading and end up with these bogus tags.. , G.

[Fritz]

Gaspare,

it would be good if this was the case...unfortunatly many soldiers have not been buried in a proper grave...Their bodies were covering the ground and noone took care on proper graves or taking their IDs as the circumstances didn't allow that.

Yes "IF" , but I strongly doubt that this is the case here. When you find remains with a ID you need to give that either to the Volksbund für Kriegsgräberfürsorge, the police, to the DRK or another red cross organisation....and you won't get it back. The ebay seller says that he got these IDs from young people that in a "volunteer operation" search for fallen russian soldiers and their IDs. I always thought russian soldiers haven't had IDs...though I am not sure. In my opinion those german IDs were all taken from the graves of fallen soldiers .... If this is the case then every buyer supports a crime.


Fritz

[Gaspare]

Fritz. Yes ,many times there was no time to properly bury the dead. The quickly advancing Russians just plowed them under. This is the missing in action problem. Sometimes it is the only chance the family ever has is for a digger to find the tag and at least know where their family member has fallen. The rules were changed years ago in that the digger does not have to hand in the tag but just the info off it and where it was found. I personally know diggers who used to write the info on paper and put into a bottle and rebury with the remains at the end of the dig. Is that the norm? Does this seller do this or similiar? I don't know I'm not familiar with him. We can only hope he is doing the right thing ..

Russian ID was a wood or bakelite tube that had a small piece of paper with their info written on it. They are extremley rare to find. , G

[Airborne Nut]

Fritz,

I can understand your emotion here, but the assumption that the identity disc was stollen from a grave without any evidence is unfair. Granted it does happen and to those who do such things I wish them an eternity in the deepest depths of hell, but to stigmatize all people who sell identity discs as once having them stollen from the grave is not fair at all. Do you have some information we are not aware of on this seller? Becuase your statement seems as though you are pidgeon holeing all identity disc sellers into the category of graverobber, unless of course as stated above you have some information on this seller that we are not aware of?

[QUOTE=Fritz]Truely a good person that sells identity disks that he most probably took from the graves of soldiers. [QUOTE]

[Fritz]

Shane,

please check him out at ebay...All the required information is in the starting post. He offers ground dug ID's from Stalingrad...He is from Moscow. The storry he offers is shady in my eyes. I have no proof nor did I say I would have proof that these IDs come from graves.

I believe that most of the ground dug IDs come from graves as they are easier to find when there is a lot of metal around (steelhelmet, nails from boots, buckle, gasmask canister etc) than a single ID somewhere in the landscape. Also are there many mass graves around Stalingrad but no master depot for thrown away IDs I think...

I have no problem with ground dug items. I feel a bit angry if it appears to me that things were stolen from graves just for so money. May they take the awards or belt buckles from the dead people ( which I also don't like ) but they should leave the IDs where they are.

Please don't support people that sell masses of ground dugg IDs. This is all I am saying.

Thanks for reading.

[Matt L]

Gee Fritz, don't you think you're jumping to conclusions and being rather harsh accusing someone of rather terrible things before asking if such things even happen? That's not only insulting to Vladimir, but it's insulting to me too. Half my family is German, and even if that weren't the case, I would never deal with anyone whom I knew to be taking Erkennungsmarken from fallen soldiers, who may to this day still be classified as Vermißt, removing any possibility of their families ever knowing what happened to their loved one. Now I'm not taking offense because I at least hope that was not what you meant by your posting, but it was offensive to my friend. When I first saw Vladimir's offerings on ebaY I carefully read his description of what his group does and I'm not sure how you can get 'grave-robbers' from it; he very specifically states that their intent is to FIND fallen soldiers and, if possible identify them, and if not, at least give them a proper burial. I asked him if he knew where to report fallen German soldiers and he was quite clear that he was aware of the Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt) and had already contacted them a number of times. The WASt does not ask for, nor do they expect the Erkennungsmarke to be handed-over to them- they only want the marking and exact location of the soldier's remains- and Vladimir and his kids do that. As his explanation quite clearly states, they sell items to pay for the burials of soldiers who cannot be identified- they are a non-profit organization. What's more, and I'm certain any of our other European friends can confirm, Erkennungsmarken are not always found with remains. 91 000 German soldiers were taken prisoner when Paulus surrendered- all of their identification, medals, badges, etc. would have been confiscated by the Soviets and I'd be very surprised if much of it was not just discarded- either that or the Landsers threw stuff away themselves. I have another friend in the Czech Republic who has been a weekend metal-detectorist for years and has found dozens and dozens of Erkennungsmarken- but never any remains at all. A friend of his found over 2000 discs in a pit- and as the place was the area where von Manstein's 9. Armee surrendered in 1945, it is more than likely this was simply a confiscation dump site. Looking at the information given me by a number of friends all over Europe, it certainly seems to me that it is far more likely to find material NOT associated with a field grave than vice versa.

Now just to address your second posting, Vlad lives both in Volgograd and Moscow and travels back and forth for work. ebaY accused him of posting items with 'restricted symbols' (which he actually did not) and suspended his first account- which listed his home as Volgograd. He had to start a new one- the one you see now- and his home is listed now as Moscow; it's not a conspiracy Fritz. If you have no proof of anything shady, I don't understand why you make such unfair accusations- especially when I say I do have reason to believe he is a good guy! You are completely wrong that most ground dug Erkennungsmarken come from graves- visit the Militaria Fundforum and see the postings there- people find them in forests, in gardens, ALL OVER- and almost never does anyone find a soldier's remains with them. Something like 15 MILLION men served during the war and of those who were fortunate enough to survive to the end, I think it's likely that few wanted to keep identification that could be used against them by their soon-to-be captors, so they threw them away. That and there were large numbers of POW collection points and camps where, as I mentioned before, Erkennungsmarken, among other things, were taken and often dumped. I know a fellow who regularly visits sites that were known POW camps and he finds discs quite often- he 'sells masses of ground-dug IDs' and he's GERMAN- you don't think he's robbing graves, do you?

So, while I do agree that there are some 'black-diggers' out there, it's terribly unfair to simply assume that someone is one with no evidence whatsoever. Even moreso when the person is actually one of the good people who reports fallen soldiers when he finds them. I think such people should be thanked- not insulted. That's just not right.

I'm not angry at you for what you wrote Fritz, I just hope you see what I am saying.

Thanks.

Matt

[Fritz]

Matt,

humans usualy believe what they want to believe....it is much easier then. For me there is no doubt were these IDs from many several units come from. I know such "diggers" personaly...not trough the internet...not by phone, fax or whatever. The honours ones report if they find human remains and they have to give the ID along with the remains to a official institution....Noone minds if the awards etc. are gone, but the ID needs to be there. They don't accept a piece of paper with the datas on it.

It is correct that there are IDs out there which are not from fallen soldiers.
Still the larger number of the "dugg ones" that I have seen came from graves and were passed along to the officials.

I know that the "Volksbund für Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge" is taking care on the things that your friend claims to do (searching MIAs/KIAs)...YES right there in Stalingrad...But; they are OFFICIAL...can your friend provide any official papers!? Papers that clearly show that he is allowed to walk around and searching for IDs with his "volunteers childreens"? I strongly believe that these children are the ones that start digging when his detector makes beeeeeeeeeeeep. He is smart as it could aslo be a mine which is the reason for the beeeeeeeeep...So take cover and let the kids dig that out.Common, do you think that the russian officials would allow that children search and dig in an area where there are not only IDs but lots of amuntion and explosives of any kind!?

Your friend doesn't need to sell the items in order to pay for costs that a "good grave" causes as the german government along with the Kriegsgräberfürsorge pays for everything involved to recover german&russian soldiers in the Stalingrad area....

As for you being half german....That is very nice, the same as nice as if you were half russian/japanese/italian or whatever. If you have gotten the idea that I hold the german soldiers higher than the russian, polish,french, british, italian, canadian, US and the many other here unnamed..........well.......then you are wrong.

I never said that nor will I ever do. It is obvious that your friend is after the german items as he can make money with them....Sorry to they that. And I really hope that I am wrong but I am afraid I am not.

This is my point..........I am not going to argue as you have your opnion and I have mine....


Cheers

Fritz

[2coins]

I dont think anyone should buy them anyway,they should ALL be turned into the german goverment for reserch.But people are people and sadly wont do that.I say a total BANN on buying&selling, Just like our metal of honor here in the U.S.A. (illegal) what do you'al say about it????

[hochiminhtrail]

what a lot of people forget is that the ID tags that are ground dug found in germany are mostly coming from POW camps, german soldiers who were taken prisonier just got rid of everything they had, from military buttons, pips & shoulder board devices, watches, medals and so on. And this not just Waffen SS stuff but you find stuff from all branches, there are forest that are full of KM buttons, you just walk on a path in the forest and sometimes you find a button on the ground, in this particular forest they have `fopund thousands and thousands of KM badge, they were soldiers foxholes just filled with badge and crosses, everything you wanted was in there, this goes back to the 1980s. I have met the guy who picked up the stuff.

In northern germany english military goverment issued orders, that all buttons that have military utility have to bee´removed from the uniform, also german soldiers tried to hid there medals right after the capture, when in POw camp, they tried to hide them in the ground before being released our transeferd, they knew that had to go trough a complet search of their belongings again.

So when you go on the Rheinvisen, where hundredthousand german POW were in pow camp, you will find many iD tags, some have been broken in verry small pieces. and believe me there must have been tons of stuff in the ground after the war.

So you can not say that all ground dug id tags are from grave robbers, but as i sayed before, the ones that are picked up from a battelfield are probably being taken out of remains, like in russia and other front areas.


this can only be said for id tags found in germany, for russia thats an other story.

Alex

[Jean-Loup]

I personnaly knew some polish diggers who had large amouints of dog tags comming from missing soldiers. They would give them to the Volksbund, and the Volksbund would send them back after several months. I thnik what happens to the dog tag of a missing soldier depends on the country where he is found. I suspect that in France, it would be a huge deal and the ID would go to the police. But in Russia, I am sure the Volksbund was smart enaugh to make an arangement with the diggers, so that they can keep the dog tags.


JL

[Fritz]

Alex,

I think you are right. Was it 96 or 97 when a bunch of LAH IDs appeared from around Berlin with no blood type on them (not issued)? Maybe this is a bad example as they could be fake!? I am no ID expert but it were about 100 ground dug IDs or so.
So many stuff is laying in the ground that does not necessarily comes from graves. But as you said I think that the guy from Stalingrad, so he says himself on ebay, is searching (along with boys&girls) for fallen soldiers. So, me personaly I think it is easier to find a mass grave in that area than a ID depot....just my thoughts.

2coins,

well I don't have a problem if people collect ground dug IDs. But in this particular case it looks to me as if the IDs are coming from graves and that is what I don't like. I don't think you need a new law. I strongly believe that it is forbidden in Russia as well to take anything from graves...So, if they all would follow the law the problem would not exsist....But that's the theory.

And there is another thing I want to make clear here....I also don't like if a GIs ID is taken from a grave to sell it...My concerns are not exclusivly for german IDs.


Cheers

Fritz

[hochiminhtrail]

Hy Fritz,

all this ID collecting can be a minefield, for example you have original old ground dug "blank" id tags, nothing on it , you can just stamps whatever unit on old original id tags, those id tags were kept by the headquaters company, and those as well have been thrown away when the end was near.


i have seen hundreds of those tags" blank" from diggers, so it just so easy to fake those id tags. They are ground dug but still fakes .

it s so difficult to say, thats a reason why i do not collect them.


Alex