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    #1

    DKiG document for discussion

    Good Morning Guys,

    Being a SS HStFhr shouldn't it read on the document "KpFhr"

    instead of "KpChef" ??

    Thank you

    Wolf













    Hi Sepp,

    interestingly the rank is written as "Kompanie Chef"

    SS terminology would say though : "Kompanie Fuehrer"

    A mistake ?

    Please let me know !

    Best regards

    Wolf
    Attached Files
    Tags: None
    #2
    Right terminology IMO, as Kment was the appointed leader of the companie.

    On the other hand You can also read the term "Führer" used for Wehrmacht-officers, e.g. in "Führerreserve".

    Kind regards, Peter

    Comment

      #3
      In the Heer the correct term is chef.
      Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

      Comment

        #4
        Dienststellungsbezeichnung in der Waffen SS

        Hi Peter,

        thanks but your reply is a bit misleading.

        Yes, when not yet officially appointed it was called :

        "mit der Fuehrung beauftragt " !!!

        That terminology had been used in all three arms of the Wehrmacht !

        Officialy though thë "regular" leader of the company was named :

        Heer : Kompanie Chef

        Waffen SS : Kompanie Fuehrer

        Thank you

        Wolf

        Comment

          #5
          Hello

          That is wrong!

          The right terminology for all branches of the Wehrmacht (including Waffen SS) is Kompanie Chef / Kompaniechef ! (Batteriechef in Artillerie units)

          "Mit der Führung beauftragt" is the term for higher commands, if the position of the comander is temporary re-staffed.

          Kompanieführer is the right terminology for a soldier, leading the coy temporary, with a rank below the normal coy leader.
          (in case of a KIA Kompaniechef, the Kompanietruppführer taked care over the coy (in action) until the next officer can take care over the coy.
          In this case both were Kompanieführer.


          Best regards, Fronti

          P.S. It's hard to explain with rusty school english.

          Comment

            #6
            kompanie Fuehrer

            Um einen Frontalschaden zu vermeiden hier noch einmal

            ein Soldbuch Eintrag ...
            Attached Files

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Frontalschaden View Post
              Kompanieführer is the right terminology for a soldier, leading the coy temporary, with a rank below the normal coy leader.
              (in case of a KIA Kompaniechef, the Kompanietruppführer taked care over the coy (in action) until the next officer can take care over the coy.
              In this case both were Kompanieführer.
              .

              Correct.

              This is a 100% original example of a Formal DK Urkunde.

              Regards,
              John

              Comment

                #8
                Gentlemen,

                please have a look at below copy :

                According to your assumption/reasoning all officers are "KpFhr" on probation ...

                Seems to be very, very unusual to find an active Waffen SS Rgt / Div without

                a single regular company commander ...

                Regards

                Wolf

                P.S.: Ich halt's mit dem "Alten Fritz" ........ "Jeder soll nach seiner Fasson

                seelig werden "......


                Literatur - Studium kann jedoch hilfreich sein !!!



                SS - Regiment "Der Führer" (D)




                SS - Division "Reich"

                Offizierstellenbesetzung 10.7.1942


                Stab
                Kommandeur SS-O'Stubaf Otto Kumm
                Adjutant SS-H'Stuf friedrich Holzer
                Ordonnanz-Offizier SS-U'Stuf Rudolf Sombol
                Arzt SS-H'Stuf Gottfried Windolph
                T.F.(K) I SS-O'Stuf Albert Herbst
                T.F.(K) II


                Stabskompanie
                Kp.-Führer
                Führer Kradschützen-Zug SS-U'Stuf Heinrich Wickert
                Führer Panzer-Jäger-Zug
                Führer Nachrichten-Zug SS-U'Stuf Rasp
                Gefechts-Troß II
                Führer Gepäck- Troß
                T.F.(W) SS-O'Stuf Wilhelm Schröder
                Verw.-Führer SS-H'Stuf Georg Pfaff
                Verpflegungs-Offizier SS-O'Stuf Hans Schneider

                13. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Ewald Toschka
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Erich Lenthe


                I. Bataillon (I./SS-Rgt. "Der Führer")
                Kommandeur SS-H'Stuf Hans Opifizius
                Adjutant SS-O'Stuf Oskar Wolkerstorfer
                Ordonnanz-Offizier SS-U'Stuf Walter Weiss
                Arzt SS-O'Stuf Walter Pöschl
                Hilfsarzt
                Zahnarzt SS-O'Stuf Walter Klein
                T.F.(K) I SS-O'Stuf Anton Beinl
                T.F.(K) II SS-U'Stuf Karl Conrad
                T.F.(W) SS-O'Stuf Hans Fridl
                Werkmeister SS-U'Stuf Günther Streieck
                Nachsch.St.-Führer
                Verw.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Ernst Kempmann
                Verpflegungs-Offizier

                1. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-H'Stuf Richard Kepplinger
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Otto Klein
                2. Zugführer
                3. Zugführer
                4. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Karl-Heinz Lindner
                z.b.V. SS-U'Stuf Felix Neudeck

                2. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Fritz Hillig
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Kurt Stein
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Edgar Eynius
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Lothar Nehrkorn
                4. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Heinz Schiebuhr

                3. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Alfred Lex
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Oskar Pahnke
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Gerhard Schütze
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Gerhard Wolf
                4. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Karl Rudolf

                4. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Herbert Hocke
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Hans Hollinger
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Franz Schimanok
                3. Zugführer SS-O'Stuf Karl Kernstock
                4. Zugführer


                II. Bataillon (II./SS-Rgt. "Der Führer")
                Kommandeur SS-H'Stuf Sylvester Stadtle
                Adjutant SS-O'Stuf Hans Immervoll
                Arzt SS-O'Stuf Georg Jochum
                Hilfsarzt
                Zahnarzt SS-O'Stuf Walter Combecher
                Ordonnanz-Offizier SS-U'Stuf Grieme
                T.F.(K) I SS-U'Stuf Ernst Ruther
                T.F.(K) II
                T.F.(W)
                Werkmeister SS-O'Scha Brander
                Verpflegungs-Offizier
                Verw.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Gerhard Geerken
                Nachsch.St.-Führer

                5. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-H'Stuf Josef Altrogge
                1. Zugführer SS-O'Stuf Waldemar Klaus
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Otto Enderle
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf August Hoffmann
                4. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Stoffen Chemnitz

                6. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-H'Stuf Herbert Schulze
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Lothat Kathner
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Walter Butze
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Theodor Walther
                4. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Heinz Weidemann

                7. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Wilhelm Wolter
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Hans Last
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Franz Lipp
                3. Zugführer
                4. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Heinrich Wolf

                8. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Sepp Unterkofler
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Hans Polanski
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Franz Weinzettel
                4. Zugführer SS-O'Stuf Werner Schriever


                III. Bataillon (III./SS-Rgt. "Der Führer")
                Kommandeur SS-Stubaf Fritz Horn
                Adjutant SS-O'Stuf Friedrich Eberwein
                Ordonnanz-Offizier SS-U'Stuf Walter Fuchs
                Arzt SS-O'Stuf Spielberger
                Hilfsarzt SS-U'Stuf Gerrit Waterborg
                T.F.(K) I SS-U'Stuf Otto Behrendt
                T.F.(K) II
                T.F.(W) SS-O'Stuf Ludwig Westphal
                Werkmeister SS-O'Scha Wecerz
                Nachsch.St.-Führer
                Verw.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Karl Groß
                Verpflegungs-Offizier

                9. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Alfons Schrober
                1. Zugführer SS-O'Stuf Günther Ponkert
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Josef Lang
                3. Zugführer SS-St.O.Jk. Klaus Berger
                4. Zugführer SS-St.O.Jk. Gerhard Schmager
                z.b.V.

                10. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-O'Stuf Heinz Werner
                1. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Helmut Reiche
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Gerhard Wykybiel
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Joachim Krüger
                4. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Edmund Nickmann

                11. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-H'Stuf Ludwig Hödl
                1. Zugführer
                2. Zugführer SS-O'Stuf Wolfgang Siebert
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Hans Schröder
                4. Zugführer

                12. Kompanie
                Kp.-Führer SS-H'Stuf Hans Bollert
                1. Zugführer SS-O'Stuf Braun
                2. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Günther Niethmann
                3. Zugführer SS-U'Stuf Herbert Keßler
                4. Zugführer

                Comment

                  #9
                  KpFhr vs KpChef

                  Hi John,

                  Hi Fronti,

                  you can't be serious !!!!!!!!!!!!!

                  My flight instructor in Texas used to say : "Hit them books" !!!

                  Wolf





                  Originally Posted by Frontalschaden View Post
                  Kompanieführer is the right terminology for a soldier, leading the coy temporary, with a rank below the normal coy leader.
                  (in case of a KIA Kompaniechef, the Kompanietruppführer taked care over the coy (in action) until the next officer can take care over the coy.
                  In this case both were Kompanieführer

                  Comment

                    #10
                    KpFhr vs KpChef

                    Hi again,

                    before I will go to bed ....

                    please inform : what is " coy " ........

                    couldn't find that term anywhere !!

                    Thanks

                    Wolf

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by herkules View Post
                      Hi John,

                      Hi Fronti,

                      you can't be serious !!!!!!!!!!!!!

                      My flight instructor in Texas used to say : "Hit them books" !!!

                      Wolf

                      You asked the question - who needs to hit the books?

                      My area is KC documentation, though I've been known to dabble in DK material as well. Here is an SS KC Prelim that has been posted on the forum before. Is this one wrong too?

                      John
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by herkules View Post
                        Gentlemen,

                        please have a look at below copy :

                        According to your assumption/reasoning all officers are "KpFhr" on probation ...

                        WRONG.

                        There was a military distinction in terms used by the Army with Chef/Führer. Chef being the commander, and Führer actually only as a deputy or acting commander. The W-SS often co-opted the terminology of its big brother, the Heer. Many member's of the W-SS received their technical training in Army schools, as the fledging, paramilitary W-SS had none. Much of that Army influence can be seen throughout the W-SS, as it sought to gain legitimacy as a military organization. This also extends to simple things like to the use of the term Chef. being interchanged with Führer.

                        John



                        Best,
                        John
                        Last edited by InfanterieSammler; 07-14-2013, 07:09 PM.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by herkules View Post
                          Hi again,

                          before I will go to bed ....

                          please inform : what is " coy " ........
                          How embarrassing for you.

                          If they don't mind the company, I will let our esteemed English colleagues handle this one.

                          John

                          Comment

                            #14
                            if you have problem with it, you can sell it to me,
                            i will not put discussion here for neither the 'companie' nor 'chef'.
                            John has said: very nice one!
                            so you don't be worried.
                            the SB come with the document?

                            Comment

                              #15
                              KpFhr vs KpChef

                              Gentlemen,

                              it is amazing how a simple question can lead to arguments like this !

                              I had just asked if the terminology "KpChef" on the award document had

                              been the right term for a Waffen SS officer in the very same position !

                              None of you guys has answered that simple question !

                              Instead of providing a solid answer you went on the "defensive"

                              and insinuated that I argue the origin of that document !

                              Please be fair ... I do not want to doubt the document shown....

                              I just want you to answer my question !!!

                              All documents/resources I have indicate that an officer in the Waffen SS

                              ... commanding a company... was called "Kompanie Fuehrer" !!

                              (till the last minute of the war)

                              You are right when stating that later on in the war Waffen SS commanders

                              added the equivalent to Army Ranks to their SS Ranks ....

                              but this fact does not justify your conclusions !

                              Please read my statements and stay within the parameters of a serious

                              discussion !

                              Best regards

                              Wolf

                              Please !

                              Wolf

                              Comment

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