Himmler signature (Estand)

[PBR]

Hello guys,

I open this for a safe and honest sale on the Estand.
The signature was already discussed positively here ages ago, but cannot find the thread, so, here we are again.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=623102

IMHO a 100% genuine piece.
Many thanks

[jonathancol]

Definitely a nice item, but looks like a stamp based on the edges and toning in my opinion.

[addo]

Can you please tell us how can we see the difference between the stamp and hand signature, what should we look for ? Edges, Toning ?

Thank you

Definitely a nice item, but looks like a stamp based on the edges and toning in my opinion.

[jonathancol]

The 1st indication of a stamp is how the ink is applied. This one looks like it was all applied at the same time. It has one shade of black. I called it tone. A hand signed one will likely not be the same tone. Second is the edge, which looks well defined. This would be the edge of the stamp.

This is a good example of a hand signed one (in pen):

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520444

You'll note that the ink gets lighter and darker due to the motion of a hand, giving definition. You can also see the line as the ink comes off the pen and crosses over itself. If you look at the end of the one in question, you can see ink blobs without a defined line, just a defined outline and even some spots left behind when the stamped ink dries.

I hope that helps.

[PBR]

Never seen a stamped signature on Himmler picture, maybe Jonathancol can enlighten us.
BTW, I just hope you are a knowledgeable signatures collector to make such a comment about this piece.

Anyway, IMO it's hand signed, very clear de visu but you can sure see some distinctive signs of a ink hand signature here also.

[jonathancol]

I was simply giving an opinion. You may want to see if you can see anything on the back side. Fountain pens can leave an indentation due to the tip (somewhat like a ballpoint does) that you can often see if held at an angle.

[Vilja]

Perhaps it is hand signed....but my question would be...is it in fact Himmler signed?

From my own personal viewpoint and experience, there are certain characteristics of the extremely sharp manner in which Himmler signed, whether by pen or green pencil, that seem to be missing from this Himmler signed postcard.

I hope that this helps and does not hinder.

Vilja

[PBR]

I was simply giving an opinion. You may want to see if you can see anything on the back side. Fountain pens can leave an indentation due to the tip (somewhat like a ballpoint does) that you can often see if held at an angle.

Dear Sir,

You didn't answer to my question: are you a signature collector? have you any knowledge about signatures in general and Himmler signatures?
Your opinion is misleading if you are not knowledgeable about this subject, and you are not, since untill few months ago you were asking opinions about signatures and still learning right on this forum.
The signature clearly shows the fountain pen strokes, so it's hand signed, it's very clear to my eyes.
My question infact was not if hand signed\printed, but if original.

Again, you need to back your statement Sir, please produce a printed Himmler signature on glossy picture.

This forum is long way dead, anybody is entitled to destroy items without the minimum knowledge about the subject.
My last subscription, thats' for sure.

[PBR]

Perhaps it is hand signed....but my question would be...is it in fact Himmler signed?

From my own personal viewpoint and experience, there are certain characteristics of the extremely sharp manner in which Himmler signed, whether by pen or green pencil, that seem to be missing from this Himmler signed postcard.

I hope that this helps and does not hinder.

Vilja

The signature in object was written on glossy photopaper, this is why is not as sharp as the ones on standard paper.
BTW, would you enlighten us with some shots of the Himmler signatures residing in your personal collection?
Because I have the impression the ones are giving opinions here are the ones that have never handled a single Himmler signature during their life time.

I would love to have an opinion from the seriuos signature members as Max History and the others, but they don't reply to threads anymore unfortunately.

[Top Buzzer]

Hello

Hello TK,

I think the armchair experts are just winding you up

I bought an original Himmler signature last year from Max History. The reason I bought it from Max is due to the fact he has a huge collection off these signatures and is very well respected. You cannot give opinions that are credible just because you think its not good. I own an original Himmler signature but does that make me an expert? no way! it takes years off study to be able to give an opinion that is credible.

If Tom Durante told me one of my badges were wrong I would believe it to be due to the help and interaction on this forum and with the years of study detecting the latest fakes coming on the market.

To the two members who are giving "Just my opinion" . Do a search on all their recent posts and you will soon figure out how much experts they are in Himmler signatures or anything else in that matter.

I am no expert on anything as my collecting interests are so varied. I can spot a souval fake and could give an opinion based on items in my own collection. As for your Himmler I only have one other signature to compare it too and that is not enough for me to make a call......anyway, as for myself and the other two members, our opinions mean nothing. Ok your Himmler is original......I said it is so it must be.....not quite.......

There are certain men that are the backbone of this forum and as signatures go Max History is one off them but as you say he no longer posts which is a pity. If it was an SS Helmet or a Luftwaffe para badge the call would have been made by now.

Do not listen to the armchair experts unless they have something to say that is constructive and not just for the hell off saying it.


come on signature guys.....help him out

Thanks

Mike

[PBR]

Hello TK,

I own an original Himmler signature but does that make me an expert? no way!

Mike

Dear Mike,

thanks for your serious comment.
you are VERY right.
but this is even more right for the persons that do not even own a single Himmler signature, right?
I'm not a signature expert, but this was given the thumps up ages ago on the forum by the big guys, and I can't belive is not good anymore just because someone with no knowledge say so.

I'm ready to accept this as a fake and ask moderators to remove it RIGHT NOW, but as far as this has been proved by serious signature collectors backing the statements producing evidences of that, not just off a couple of hits on google searching for "nice original himmler signature".
And by "serious signature collectors" I mean Max History and FEW others (guys don't feel mad at me if I don't recall all the names, there are few of them around here)
Am I wrong?
I think that destroy items just because you are bored, is just mouth louding BS.

[Top Buzzer]

yes

Its the same as a man that calls himself a property tycoon and only owns a garden shed and a dog kennel

At the end off the day they are just opinions so take them as such.... you would have more constructive opinions in other areas off Third Reich collecting.

[frankandfrank]

You can see clearly the fine original handwritting signature with ink from Himmler !

Here you can see a fake postwar signature from Himmler:

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/engine/...Filter=Archive

[max history]

The signature posted by T.K. is in my opinion a genuine handwritten Himmler autograph. It does not have the characteristics of a printed or stamped example, but does exhibit nib stroke lines. Crossovers are not as obvious as a result of the ink being applied to a chemically enhanced surface (i.e. photo printing.) Having decided upon that, the actual formation of the characters in the handwriting, spacing and angles indicate that it was almost certainly handwritten by Heinrich Himmler. A nice piece.
Max.

[PBR]

Many thanks Max and Frank.
Now the new owner has been granted 8 hours of good sleep per night.