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    #1

    Panzer Division Soldbuch on E-stand

    Well I hope that I am wrong and opinions from others are most welcome, but the longer I look at the photo of the guy in his wrapper, the longer I think that the photo is a later replacement.

    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=606412

    Another staple bleeding on page 1 above his rank Unteroffizier and in front of für.
    The white color on the cover in the two stamps areas seems to be there because the other stamps are removed.
    Enough wrinkles in the cover but not in the photo.
    I doubt it if the used stamp on the photo, when looking at the one at the top left, is a good one.

    Best regards

    Eric-Jan
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    #2
    I share your suspicions. In addition, the signature under the photo to me looks like an attempt to copy the original signature on page 2.

    Comment

      #3
      Agree 100%, the photo is a later replacement.

      And please note -
      according to description on page 2 , owner wearing a mustache : Bart-ja

      But I don´t see any

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by Chris Pittman View Post
        I share your suspicions. In addition, the signature under the photo to me looks like an attempt to copy the original signature on page 2.
        I just forgot the mention the signature, the one on page 2 is much stronger done than the one under the photo, and sure no lookalikes - although I know that signatures can change a lot during the war - but these two are very far from being close.

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by kuratorium View Post
          ....according to description on page 2 , owner wearing a mustache : Bart-ja

          But I don´t see any
          Not a moustache but a beard, but that is something one can shave off.

          I do have a large grouping to a Uboat NCO, and no I am not talking about photos taken after the coming back from a long war patrol at sea, but photos taken during the war years.
          First he did wear a moustache for a longer period and when he went to another Uboat to serve on......he did no longer wear a moustache.

          So that could happen to this guy too, although I already did have my doubts about the photo in that Soldbuch.

          Comment

            #6
            Agreed, picture is replaced, imitation signature and stamped with fake stamps.

            Also, the man in the picture is not Geiger. The real Geiger had a full face was strong build and able to grow a beard.

            Comment

              #7
              I was offered this Soldbuch several months ago and passed on it, mainly because I felt the photo was not original to the book. I can't say for certain if it's original, but based on the scans I was sent, IMHO it has been replaced post-war.

              Best,
              Rob

              Comment

                #8
                http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=606412

                Now on hold...............

                Comment

                  #9
                  ...Hmm, as always: a ZWEITSCHRIFT is always subject for good and fruitful Discussion!

                  Maybe the new owner provides better pictures to "solve" the issue...

                  On the other hand: What are You all thinking about the (amazing) sPzAbt 502-grouping which was sold by a dealer without a picture in the SB?

                  I own a wonderful grouping of a soldier in Pz A A 23 who earned the PAB Bronce 25, but unfortunately his SB does not show him in the black wrapper, only in M36 tunic.

                  Another SB shows a Panzerjager with a huge SB-photo in grey wrapper with skulls and some experts say: this guy was only member of a crew of a Marder, that does not count!

                  I think it is all about ORIGINALITY! Be happy with original attached photographs, be excited with original attached wrapper photographs and please be not to harsh with SBs without any pics!
                  Last edited by walter1010de; 07-07-2012, 06:04 PM.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by walter1010de View Post
                    Another SB shows a Panzerjager with a huge SB-photo in grey wrapper with skulls and some experts say: this guy was only member of a crew of a Marder, that does not count!
                    "...does not count" because he was "only" a Marder crew member? Who said that??? That doesn't make much sense, unless maybe the price was ridiculously high for what the ID was or there weren't any combat awards??

                    Originally posted by walter1010de View Post
                    I it is all about ORIGINALITY! Be happy with original attached photographs, be excited with original attached wrapper photographs and please be not to harsh with SBs without any pics!
                    I agree 100%. While I will pay significantly more for an ID with a nice portrait photo, that surely does not mean I would pass on an otherwise nice ID which has no photo at all. Removed photos are very unfortunate but some collectors fail to recognize or understand that many of these IDs were used post-war and as a result the photos were sometimes torn out; in these cases the removed photos are actually an additional part of the history associated with the pass, but of course it's usually impossible to say when exactly a photo was removed. While a removed photo does IMHO hurt the "monetary value," passing on a Soldbuch with rare or desirable entries simply because the photo has been removed is, again IMHO, rather foolish if you're collecting for the right reasons, i.e. historical significance and interest.

                    But to each his own!

                    Anyway.......Glad to see that the seller of this Soldbuch has finally made mention of this thread in his sales thread.

                    Rob

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Here it is again:

                      http://www.ebay.com/itm/German-Soldb...item20cb732732

                      Comment

                        #12
                        I saw this Soldbuch on a dealer's table at the opening of the the Show of Shows in 2011. I quickly bought it without fully inspecting it; that same day, I sold it to a friend of mine, who was looking for a Panzer Soldbuch and attended the show. That evening, my friend inspected it carefully. The next morning, he approached me, telling me about his concerns regarding the photo. After reviewing the photo, I agreed the photo had been added.
                        A forger (the dealer?) went to great lengths to make the photo appear to be original to the Soldbuch. My friend, a small document collector posse, and I approached the dealer and told him about the issues with the photo. I had had two run-ins with this dealer before and he wasn't happy about me asking for my money back - again. I was the spokesman for the group, and told the dealer why we felt the photo had been added. Since this event, I will never buy another thing from this dealer - at shows, I walk right by his tables. The dealer did give me my money back and, I, of course, returned my friend's money. Note, after seeing the scans on eBay, I think the stamps were further defaced with an eraser.

                        Barry

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