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    #31
    Thanks Jeff,

    I knew you would know
    If I recall correctly I do no have any examples from 1937.....now I have a task to see the earliest that I have!
    As mentioned earlier, this model had dates either on page 1 or the rear cover to indicate when it was updated or amended.....
    I think the "mid war" term came from Emilie's first book?

    /Ian
    Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

    Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

    Comment

      #32
      thanks again Ian: resolutive!!!

      Comment

        #33
        Originally posted by Ian Jewison View Post
        Firstly this is not the mid war type....I will have a dig around and can show that this type was actually in use by late 1938 or 1939...forget at the moment.

        Also, the reason why he signed Feldwebel was....as I pointed out....the photo was clearly added with a unit he was serving in from mid 1941.....whilst at this unit he was promoted to Feldwebel, so there is a high chance that he signe it after this time and of course the photo was not added in 1939 when the Wehrpass was issued!

        Over the years I have seen few examples of this and that is why I came to the conclusions I did.

        I will also try and post a similiar example ......

        Regards,
        Ian

        Thanks Ian!
        Looking at it first I would definitely say this is a second issue, but thanks for the explanation.

        If possible, I would really like to see a similar example.
        This is not a Mid-war Wehrpass type? Even on WAF they call it a Mid-war Wehrpass:

        http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/documents/wehrpass.htm

        Comment

          #34
          Originally posted by dennisb View Post
          Thanks Ian!
          Looking at it first I would definitely say this is a second issue, but thanks for the explanation.

          If possible, I would really like to see a similar example.
          This is not a Mid-war Wehrpass type? Even on WAF they call it a Mid-war Wehrpass:

          http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/documents/wehrpass.htm
          H'mmm that link is wrong, however I or Gary Tankard had no input on that article.....This type is obviously the more common type.....

          Hopefully I can sneak away from the family and get on my PC upstairs later...

          /Ian
          Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

          Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

          Comment

            #35
            ... another question on this wehrpass: someone knows why the erkennugsmarke (post 2 ) have only numbers without letters?

            Comment

              #36
              Originally posted by mufasa View Post
              ... another question on this wehrpass: someone knows why the erkennugsmarke (post 2 ) have only numbers without letters?

              "Nummer der Erkennungsmarke"

              On his exact erkennungsmarke would also be a unit but in the Wehrpass they only note the numbers related to the person.

              Comment

                #37
                Originally posted by dennisb View Post
                "Nummer der Erkennungsmarke"

                On his exact erkennungsmarke would also be a unit but in the Wehrpass they only note the numbers related to the person.
                I have never heard that....normally the Nummer der Erkennungsmarke is the exact same in Wehrpaß, Soldbuch and dog tag itself!

                I have just looked through 20 Wehrpässe that I have in a box next to me and all have numbers and unit...none are just numbers like you say!!
                Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

                Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

                Comment

                  #38
                  I also thought that once assigned the Erkennungsmarke remained always the same .. instead on the numbers without letters, I thought it was the case of military in service at the allocation of its wehrpass ... thanks to all for the clarifications ...

                  Comment

                    #39
                    Originally posted by mufasa View Post
                    I also thought that once assigned the Erkennungsmarke remained always the same .. instead on the numbers without letters, I thought it was the case of military in service at the allocation of its wehrpass ... thanks to all for the clarifications ...
                    I continue to think that one possibility is that the plate has been assigned so late and to a soldiers already in military service) (certainly he had a erkennungsmarke whit him for example in October 1938 when he took the medal for the Sudeten) .........

                    Comment

                      #40
                      It is possible that the number n the Erkennungsmarke assigned from the Wehrmacth is the same number of his old Erkennungsmarke in the Austrian Army?austrian

                      Comment

                        #41
                        Possibly...here is a little info on Infanterie-Regiment 134

                        Formed 1. August 1938 from Infanterie-Regiment 4 and 13 of the Austrian Bundesheeres in Wien-Strebersdorf, the III. Bataillon in Engerau. The Regiment was part of 44. Infanterie-Division.
                        On 15. October 1942 the Regiment was renamed Grenadier-Regiment 134.

                        ---------------------------------------------------

                        As you can see he was a member of Infanterie Regiment 13.

                        Will need to go through some of my Austrian documents but I do not ever recall seeing anything like this for Army!

                        /Ian
                        Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

                        Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

                        Comment

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Ian Jewison View Post
                          Possibly...here is a little info on Infanterie-Regiment 134

                          Formed 1. August 1938 from Infanterie-Regiment 4 and 13 of the Austrian Bundesheeres in Wien-Strebersdorf, the III. Bataillon in Engerau. The Regiment was part of 44. Infanterie-Division.
                          On 15. October 1942 the Regiment was renamed Grenadier-Regiment 134.

                          ---------------------------------------------------

                          As you can see he was a member of Infanterie Regiment 13.

                          Will need to go through some of my Austrian documents but I do not ever recall seeing anything like this for Army!

                          /Ian

                          many thanks Ian.....

                          Comment

                            #43
                            First of all sorry, I have also Wehrpasses and all seem to have the same as you told. How I ever could place this, I don't know, but I can not change it back now and won't.

                            However to give you an explanation for this, Ian is right.
                            Whether the Germans changed units, they kept there erkennungsmarke with there (then) old unit on it.

                            In Austria, for that reason they did not put a unit on an 'Erkennungsmarke' so it could always be used within the 'Bundesheer' also when they changed units.

                            Probably the Germans did not really care about that.
                            After the Germans took-over the Austrian Army most soldiers kept there own 'Erkennungsmarke number'.


                            Again sorry for my entangled and unclear message above!
                            I hope this message clears it up a bit!

                            Comment

                              #44
                              Originally posted by dennisb View Post

                              Probably the Germans did not really care about that.
                              After the Germans took-over the Austrian Army most soldiers kept there own 'Erkennungsmarke number'.

                              ... it is my idea! .... thanks Dennisb .... I think that is very probable (that the erkenungmarke number is the same assigned to our Untfz. from the to the Autrian Army) befotre the austrian soldiers were taken enmasse into the German Wehmacht. Entire Austrian units were literally transformed into German formations, albeit composed of Austrian troops. (over 50,000 Austrian men were thus taken into the ranks of the German Armed Forces)
                              Last edited by mufasa; 07-21-2009, 05:14 AM.

                              Comment

                                #45
                                I have found the note and photos of an austrian Erkennuggs marke of 1935 anto it is only with numeber ... when arrive J post its...
                                Last edited by mufasa; 07-24-2009, 12:13 AM.

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