SS HJ Dog Tag Fake? Need help to prove it.

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Hi everyone,

member "Frontalschaden" pointed out to me this is/might be a fake dog tag.
As I don't get replies from other forums I am asking you to help me find sources where this dog tag is identified to be a fake one.



Thanks for help ! (next time I better ask before buying expensive stuff...)

Chris

[fox-terier]

for me FAKE
Regards,
Piotr

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Bad luck for me

But I need something to prove it to the seller.

[Prinz Eugen]

Dear Chris...sorry for my english....but I want reply to you and, if is possible, help you. I'm very sorrow for you, but for me it's a fake too. I don't like the kind of "printing" and the, too much more, articulate iscription. Above all, it's one big red flag the "HJ" abbreviation! I see that it's screw in a piece of wood...mmmhhhhhh... I'm sure that there's not sign of use in the upper holes!
I hope (...and BELIVED) in Mr Dogtag, that, in a better english, explain to you ALL the problem of this tag!

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The seller sent some more pics.
It seems to be some kind of wooden "momorial" plate.
I did not care about the other decoration, as I was only interested in the dog tag.



Seems a bit much effort to produce a fake. Maybe its a kind of wartime (or postwar) self-made souvenir ?

[240stevek]

The entire mess above is fake.

[pimpf]

Ditto. There are no original items above.

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Maybe someone is in possession of the Jean Hoidal book and can send me some evidence?

[Gaspare]

You don't have to prove something is fake..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

The seller has the burden of proof to show its authentic...

[Stu W]

Hello Chris,

Bjorn (Frontalschaden ) is to the best of my knowledge an expert in tags and if he says it's bad then it's bad. I'd think he would have a copy of Hoidal and if not there was one just sold on the Estand. Try contacting the seller or buyer. Maybe they can assist.

Regards,
Stu

[Stormfighter]

Chris,

The tag is a definite fake. Notice how the HJ on the upper part of the tag has quotes around it, one quote at the upper left and one quote at the lower right. This is exactly backwards of how quotes are done in German. This alone, in my opinion, makes the tag a fake. It's strange that the faker didn't duplicate his work on the lower portion of the tag. Furthermore, there is absolutely no need to have a period after the word Stab (Headquarters), which also speaks for the fact that the faker is not proficient in German. After the II. for IInd Battalion, there should be a slash. The SS runes are of a type that are seen on known fakes and overall, the stamps are rather sloppily done. Another point is the high unit registration number, that is 145. I am not sure how many people would be on a battalion staff, but certainly not 145 or more. I would expect the number to be below 30. Not that this is an absolute, but by the time the Hitlerjugend Division was forming, I would expect the tag to be made of zinc, not aluminum. Again, this tag is a junker.

Barry

[Frontalschaden]

Hallo

Have a look into the fake section of the Höidal II:

S. 349, dogtag 1249a = same stamping set

The best:
Have a look at the breaking holes / breaking line. (I don`t know the english word for Trennschlitze)

They aren`t in one line. (The left one isn`t in alignment with the other ones)



Best regards, Fronti

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Thanks everyone, especially Fronti & Stormfighter, for their help.
The seller accepted the facts and took the fake item back.

Next time I will take more care before spending a lot of money.

Chris