Late war Auschwitz III (Monowitz) wehrpass

[Nico C]

Btw, I don't understand why the original seller is stil active on this forum
He is still ripping off people.

[Gary T]

(and don't give me crap about always learning)

Wow. Arrogance at it finest.

And who was the original author of this statement / question (below) in that link ???

when did Auschwitz become part of the Waffen-SS as per the stamp?

This statement / question shows complete and utter ignorance in regards to the internal and administrative workings of the SS / KL system.

That comment alone definitely confirms that (and I quote once again):

There's lots of people who think they know WPs...unfortunately only few actually do and with the odd exception or two they are not to be found on this forum.

We can now add one more to the "who think they know WPs" list....

"Hundestaffel"

I don't need to be an 'SS expert' to know a piece of fake crap when I see one. Look at it. Just look at it.

At least I know what I'm talking about or collecting. Weren't you the one who alerted Stormfighter to this great bargain in the first place? And yet on this thread you announce to the world what a piece of crap a WP from the same fakers stable is:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=333406

Hundestaffel? Basically you either have an agenda i.e. pedalling fakes or you have no idea what you are talking about. Which one is it?

Anyone, especially novices, who collects WP or any other German ID should carefully weigh the opinion of various people on the forum.

[Gary T]

I'm willing to honor to refund G.'s money. If Barry refund's me, I will transfer the money and G. can send the book back to Barry who then can get his money back from the guy who is still selling these crap WP's...

Major kudos to Nico here. He displays what these forums are supposed to be about.

Stormfighter and Hundestaffel were responsible (via Kalie67) for such crap being sold on this forum and yet G. is hundreds of pounds out of pocket? How can this be allowed to happen especially given the '100% original' guarantee given by Stormfighter with an endorsement given by the great WP expert that is Hundeschiesse (who has now changed his expert mind).

They should both be kicked off the forum until G. and Nico have their money refunded. In fact G. should take them to court as he has it in writing that he has been sold a fake.

[Hundestaffel]

Yes, I definitely am a complete fool who knows nothing. In fact, I think we should start a thread on how foolish and unintelligent I truly am. I invite any and all collectors out there who know me to come forward and expose to the world the fakes "this clown" peddles and how incredibly stupid I really am. I'm serious about this Gary - if you don't start a thread on this, I will (Update - I just did - please do a search to find the thread).

Gary, you definitely don't know the whole story here (or do you ???) and no-one here owes you an explanation in regards to anything. I must admit, I personally love the way you have now dragged me into this - if I thought it was such a "great deal", and was 100% comfortable with it's originality, then why did I not buy it myself ??

With my professional archival contacts (I am an Archivist), it would have taken two minutes (seconds ??) to confirm (either way) the original Wehrpass owner's association (or lack thereof) with "Monowitz" (regardless of any of the stamps / markings in that book).

Could you also please post, by way of a scan (not a quote which you will just make up on your computer anyway) for the world to see, of my actual personal "endorsement" of this piece as you stated here: an endorsement given by the great WP expert that is Hundeschiesse (who has now changed his expert mind).. This I really have to see for myself - I didn't know that I was giving out personal Hundestaffel COA's !!! Please do post (at your earliest convenience), a scan of the document(s) I personally signed, endorsing the originality of this Wehrpass. I have a feeling I'll be waiting a while....

This has got to be my favorite comment - G. should take them to court as he has it in writing that he has been sold a fake. ANY court of law in the world would laugh you out of the courthouse should the "writing" you provide to them actually be a print off of a computer file (Ya, like that can't be played-with), with no original signature(s).

Mr. T, you have proved over and over on this Forum that you only believe what you want to believe anyways so explanations of any sort are a complete waste of time with you. Bash me all you want - I was taught a long time ago not to steal candy from a baby (or to publicly annihilate intellectually deficient WAF ' Tards), so I'll stop here.

*** I can see that my comment on your "Auschwitz stamp" comment really got your goat, eh ?? !!! Beautiful !!!!

Your # 1 Fan,

[Frontalschaden]

Oh my dear...

The old stamps "In die Waffen SS übernommen"...

And you guys trust it ??????

Some of the oldest fakes !!!!

Read Forum and you will see !!!!


I support Hundestaffel, he is in right !

Best regards

P.S.:See that stamps...
Dou you really belive it ? You are a joker .......

Edit:

It is a joke. Isnt it? Every one can see that this is a fake !!!
Only look at the datum form and at the afterwar Din-Stamping set. (DIN=Deutsche Industrie Norm)
This WP is only for joking guys, not for really collectors...

[Hank C.]

All right - 1 warning - keep your personal differences out of this. It's one post away from being closed and/or deleted.

Hank

[Panzer Rob]

Major kudos to Nico here. He displays what these forums are supposed to be about.

Stormfighter and Hundestaffel were responsible (via Kalie67) for such crap being sold on this forum and yet G. is hundreds of pounds out of pocket? How can this be allowed to happen especially given the '100% original' guarantee given by Stormfighter with an endorsement given by the great WP expert that is Hundeschiesse (who has now changed his expert mind).

They should both be kicked off the forum until G. and Nico have their money refunded. In fact G. should take them to court as he has it in writing that he has been sold a fake.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how "Hundestaffel" can be accused of being responsible for this Wehrpass being sold if he wasn't a member when it was sold or the discussion took place.

Gary, I have never any issues with you, but you're throwing some very serious accusations here. Have you considered the fact that maybe Barry thought the pass was legitimate at the time he purchased and then sold it?

I have done well over a dozen transactions with Barry and never once had a problem. Nothing I've purchased from him was anything other than 100% original and, based on my experiences, I'd be extremely surprised to hear that Barry was selling something he believed to be other than what he advertised it as.

And as far as "Hundestaffel" is concerned, let me say this. I've know him for about 3 years now and we exchange several emails every day. Not only is he one of the most helpful, insightful, knowledgeable and downright experienced collectors I've ever met, but he's also a person of unsurpassed integrity and honesty with rock-solid morals and values. I know several other collectors who can say the same.

Please elaborate on what "crap" he's responsible for selling. The fact that you could make such accusations is very upsetting, especially that you accuse him of being "responsible" for something he really didn't have any part in. Your attacking and insulting someone who wasn't even involved in the sale is just wrong, and I think you owe him an apology.

I will tell anyone reading this that I stand behind "Hundestaffel" 100%


Rob

[SiPo]

It is true I have in writing that I was indeed sold a fake, but I have no other choice but to live with this.

I was informed by "Stormfighter" that:

"it's been about two years since a friend of mine (a forum member - Hundestaffel, a well-known KZ document collector) mentioned this Wehrpass to me. He thought it was a good buy and I purchased it for about $300."

Barry further stated that:

"If Kai agrees to pay me back, then have Nico refund your money, and I will refund Nico's money, but not before Kai refunds my money. A lot of people got duped on these Monowitz Wehrpasses thanks to Kai."

Kai's reply to all of this was:

" Fact is, that when I sold this passport "Years ago", its hard for me even to remember that one, I was in the faith that it is real !! So if it comes out NOW, that it is not, then I would say it is the fault of the person I bought it from, as much as you say it is my fault cause you bought it of me. Right ? And after such a so long time, I think even in a regular shop they
would have a problem to take things back which have been bought that long ago."

Unfortunately, everyone of us has purchased fakes at one time or another. My 2 fake KL Soldbuchs were of such high quality that several experts gave these high endorsements for several years. It was only after an original soldbuch turned up that had the original entries from which mine were copied, that the truth was known. I had purchased one of these about 6 years prior to it being exposed, so it took 6 years to change experts views on it.

The fake Aus.III Wp was a little quicker to be exposed, but at the time it first appeared on the market it was generally accepted as being good.

I certainly don't blame "Hundestaffel" or "Stormfighter" for getting it wrong and then changing their minds once further evidence became available and I certainly do not believe that they knowingly endorsed or passed on a known fake.

I second Rob's endorsement of "T" ("Hundestaffel") and I too stand behind him 100%.

Regards,
G

[Hundestaffel]

Now it is much clearer in regards to the "hows and whys" of how I was brought into this madness. If the WAF is still able to pull up Kai's original WAF advertisement for this book, I indeed was one of the many WAF members (and public at large) who read his sales ad when first posted. Kai's ad originally contained only a very vague description of a "Monowitz" Wehrpass, no scans being posted. In conversation with Stormfighter (whom I've known for 25 years), I did indeed agree that the posted asking price was indeed a "good buy" (and here's the key to all this) if the Wehrpass was original ("sometimes" - and it's rare, believe me - bargains are still to be found, even in the KL area). At that point, since the Wehrpass was not for my collection or being re-sold for profit by myself, my involvement in this issue basically ended. If the comment of a "good buy" (based on a price only and not on viewing scans, photos or doing any preliminary or serious research) has put me into the league that Gary T. sees me in, then so be it. That comment, Gary, is one heck of a far cry from a personal "endorsement" in regards to originality.

As for Gary's slams against my good friend "Stormfighter", I can only laugh. "Stormfighter" can more then hold his own in various aspects, and would make easy public meat of Gary should he decide to take him on again (which Gary probably won't after embarrasing the s*it out of himself with his ridiculous comments on that superb and unquestionable "Regetz" Au. KL Wehrpass that Barry once had).

This is no slam to anyone, but it is not my personal responsibility to resarch material that other people - for whatever reason(s) - are interested in. I'm always here to do the best I can in regards to assisiting other with material already in their collection, but at the end of the day it is eveyone's each and own responsibility to "do their homework" themselves before making any purchase. One's purchase should never be based upon another one's research.

As I previously stated, if I would have been purchasing this piece for myself, I would definitely have first been in contact (like I have been hundreds of times on the past) with the proper Polish and German authorities to confirm / refute this fellows association with the Auschwitz complex.

Kudos to Graham for staying so level-headed in this issue (although I can't same the same for someone else) and to all who have suffered through this issue and have stated a positive comment or two in regards to myself. This issue has put a hell of a lot of noses out of joint. Graham - if there is some kind of research KL assistance that you need / require, just let me know. This offer does not exactly cover the financial aspects of this issue, but in all probability I will be able to obtain for you KL info. that you may find difficult to obtain otherwise.

At the end of the day though, Kai should show some integrity and step up to the plate with 300 shekels in his hand.

As for Gary T, anytime you want to "go another round", you've got my number. Have you ever thought of a hobby to ease your anger management issues ??? Could I suggest collecting Soldbuchs or Wehrpasses ??? Just a thought.....

;-)


"Hundestaffel"

[leibregiment]

"At the end of the day though, Kai should show some integrity and step up to the plate with 300 shekels in his hand".

I purchased the pass from Kai...it looked good on the scans, I showed it to you guys and it was wrong, Kai refunded instantly...along with the Monowitz pass I also purchased 4 other passes which were fine, I have also purchased other items from Kai which were fine, .....we all make mistakes and Kai offers a full refund on all his goods.

I for one will continue to buy from him.....

[SiPo]

Kai has offered me $100 in compensation.

[Hundestaffel]

I must say, I am truly furious over this whole issue. While I have not had too much direct correspondence with Graham, a couple of my good collecting friends have and have said nothing but good things about him. A fellow like this who has nothing but good intentions in this hobby does not deserve this kind of "run-around".

If indeed my "Good buy" comment (which remember, was based on the price alone, sight unseen) was a, or the, catalyst for this piece leaving Kai's hands, then I take full responsibility for my actions.

Further to my offer to assist Graham in regards to his research efforts, I will also refund Graham 25 % of what he has into this Wehrpass (whatever the price he paid for it was). Graham, if you could please PM me your postal mailing address, along with telling me what 25% of your purchase works out to, I can assure you that I will have the money out to you in the mail first thing Tuesday morning (Monday is a holiday here).

"Hundestaffel"

[Panzer Rob]

That's extremely generous of you. Not too many people out there who would step up to the plate like you have, especially considering that you - in reality - had nothing to do with any of this.


Rob

[SiPo]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank both "Hundestaffel" and "Stormfighter" for their kindness and generosity in offering compensation.

They are true gentlemen in a hobby fraught with unpleasant and unsavory characters and have certainly earned my respect.

G

[Eric JB]

Gentlemen,

After one month without internet back on line again.

I see that this problem still isn't solved yet !

Is it so hard to solve this problem ?

Maybe it is possible to follow the way back with this piece of crap, we know who are involved here.
G.Hanson, Nico C, Stormfighter, Kai.
Return the Wehrpaß - return the money - and at the end the bad booklet is back to it's source.....Kai.

Some comments taken from the postings and replies.......and what does lifetime guarantee and guarantee means here.

----------------------------..................................

Kai's reply to all of this was:

" Fact is, that when I sold this passport "Years ago", its hard for me even to remember that one, I was in the faith that it is real !! So if it comes out NOW, that it is not, then I would say it is the fault of the person I bought it from, as much as you say it is my fault cause you bought it of me. Right ? And after such a so long time, I think even in a regular shop they
would have a problem to take things back which have been bought that long ago."

Unfortunately, everyone of us has purchased fakes at one time or another. My 2 fake KL Soldbuchs were of such high quality that several experts gave these high endorsements for several years. It was only after an original soldbuch turned up that had the original entries from which mine were copied, that the truth was known. I had purchased one of these about 6 years prior to it being exposed, so it took 6 years to change experts views on it.


Kai has offered me $100 in compensation.


Kai : "I have to appologize for this item and as you can see in the underline of my postings, I will, if things like that get sold, take them back without any hassle and moneyback guarantee....!!!"

MaxBrunn1938 : "I use to know this seller years ago (who I still like) that would do things like this (ie) add dickie birds to leather and metal items, stamp paperworks and clothing using original stampings, just to make it better or to spruce up early Post War items. I'd only buy stuff from him if it was free and clear of the Extras that he added. "

--------------------------------............................................

yours friendly

Eric-Jan