Help in KZ WP

[clevischi]

Hello,

A friend have showed a KZ WP and i never had seen this "lagerkommandantur" stamp. Anyone have some opnion?

[Eric JB]

Hi Carlos,

Sorry to say it, but I think that your man's war career ended with a contruction training unit and not serving with a KZ unit !
In my opinion the three KZ stamps are fakes.

yours

Eric-Jan

[PHILBROWN]

im with erich here, the runes look rather odd.

[peter u]

Hello,

I have seen the "KL Dachau" & "KL Gross Rosen" stamps that are used in this wp in absolute original wp's & sb's, the KL Sachsenhausen not.
IMO the "Lagerkommandantur Sachsenhausen" stamp is a fake.

Cheers,
Peter

[clevischi]

Thank you by the opnions. Will talk to the owner.

[Panzer Rob]

Hello,

I have seen the "KL Dachau" & "KL Gross Rosen" stamps that are used in this wp in absolute original wp's & sb's, the KL Sachsenhausen not.
IMO the "Lagerkommandantur Sachsenhausen" stamp is a fake.

Cheers,
Peter

I agree with Peter... However, the big question is, why would someone take a WP with legit Dachau and Gross Rosen entries and add a bogus Sachsenhausen stamp???

Rob

[clevischi]

Rob, this was my doubt too. I talked before with Peter saying the same thing...

[peter u]

Hello,

Explaining why a faker does this or that isn't easy.
It is also something I don't want to break my head on neither.

I have said it numerous times on this forum, KL ID-booklets are easy to fake.
One should not be scared of them but approach them with caution.
In the past I have seen original KL ID-booklets that were faked/upgraded with the help of very good copies or even original KL administration stamps.
So comparing them with well known and researched originals is the best way, often the only way to come to a conclusion if you are dealing with the real deal or a fake.

With KL ID booklets it like with all other ID booklets or all militaria objects, there are examples that scream: "I'am original" from a huge distance.
These examples have: a KL uniform picture in it, well known signatures, many (different) stamps,...etc.
Then there are the examples without a KL uniform picture, no signatures, one or two KL stamps.
This is how a large majority of KL related ID booklets look.
On many occasions one can declare them original or fake with the help of a researched original.
There is also a bunch of stupid made fakes on the market.
Those ID booklets that scream: "I'am a fake" from a huge distance; they are no threat, if you do a little research, then you can easy spot these stupid fakes.
But there w'll always be examples that can't be declared 100% fake, 50% fake or absolute original without a doubt.
Now it is up to yourself to decide if you want to invest in such an example or not.

Enjoy holocaust collecting, it is a very intresting and also dark part of history.

Cheers,
Peter

[Alex Stefanut]

I agree with Peter... However, the big question is, why would someone take a WP with legit Dachau and Gross Rosen entries and add a bogus Sachsenhausen stamp???

Rob

IMO, to add a lenghtier period of service to KL-related units. Adds more "spice" to this book, and it is easier to fool somebody. Basically, when you're satisfied with 90 % of the contents, you tend to overlook the last 10 %, and go with the flow.

After all, the fakers know the "testis unus, testis nullus" concept, too.

Just my 2 cents on the matter,

Cheers,

Al

[peter u]

good comment "Alman2102"

P

[PHILBROWN]

slightly moving off topic, why are sachsenhausen wehrpass very common?was it the biggest.? also ive a late war dachau w/pass and a buchenwald w/pass{with tk uniform} in quite poor condition, are these as common?

[peter u]

"why are sachsenhausen wehrpass very common?"

1. The KL-Sachsenhausen guardgarisson had 3993 members.
(The camp men, F.L Mac Lean)
2. In the 1990's, large amounts of KL-Sachsenhausen wp's found there way out off an archive and in to the collecting society.

- Also many other KL ID booklets found there way out of the (East) German archives in 1990's, but the KL-Sachsenhausen related wp's is the largest group.
Imo about 99% of the KL related ID booklets one comes across come from an archive source.
In May 1945, you wouldn't want to be caught with a KL ID booklet in your pocket!

In this very large bunch of KL-Sachsenhausen related wp's you had a large variety in quality.
From very dull KL careers till very intresting and rare; mint condition till extreem water damaged examples,...etc.
Ofcourse the good quality/intresting wp's found there way in to private collections very fast and don't surface anymore.
Fakers have used those intresting wp's to "upgrade" dull wp's to more desirable KL wp's.
Those dull/damaged wp's still pop up on dealer website, fairs,...etc regularly.

Cheers,
Peter

[PHILBROWN]

thanks peter, , so not so rare then are the dachau and buchenwald nearly as common?

[peter u]

Hi Philbrown,

"are the dachau and buchenwald nearly as common?"

- Short answer: no.

This is all about personal taste, what does one find intresting and what one wants in his private collection.
But I and many other holocaust collectors prefer a top quality KL-Sachsenhausen wp with intresting entries above a dull KL-Dachau wp.
Personally I'am more intrested in some of the KL-Sachsenhausen wp's in the collection of "Polux" then in other more "rare" concentrationcamp wp's.
Imo one has to look beyond the name of the camp and understanding the history of the KL system en the final solution is the best guideline to collect holocaust related objects.

Cheers,
Peter

[PHILBROWN]

your a good guy, thanks for your help