Help on Brandenburg/SS Jägerverbände

[Edgar Alcidi]

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Thanks guys for the great help.
Eric-Jan as I wrote the Wehrpass in not exactly what I collect (FJ items), so I will probably sell it..
Edgar

[Larry deZeng]

Pichler was a lucky boy. Members of SS-Jagdkommando Südost were a Category A-1 target for both Tito's counterintelligence and secret police people as well as for Allied counterintelligence teams and the U.N. CROWCASS people. If Pichler was KIA before the war ended, then he must have been in hiding for a while after the war. Nearly all of the personnel from SS-Jagdkdo. Südost were either interrogated under torture and then killed by Tito's people or arrested by Allied CI or the U.N. War Crimes Commission and turned over to Belgrade in 1946 or 1947. These facts make your WP particularly unusual and rare.

--Larry

[Edgar Alcidi]

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Hi Larry, I agree with you. Here a small text that I got together with the wehrpass that confirm your statement:
The new formed SS-Jagdverband "Südost" was a secret ops.unit, based at Agram and operating in the Balkan states, Rumania, Bulgaria and Hungary. Not only was this unit active in the anti-partisan warfare but also in the executing of deserters and any military personnel or civilian arrested for even minor offence!
Most of the personal identity documents to personnel of these units were distroyed for obvious reasons towards the end of the war!
Edgar

[Larry deZeng]

Sehr richtig, Edgar! SS-Jagdverband Südost also worked closely with the UNS (Ustasa Nadzorna Sluzba) and the PTS in setting up "R" groups and Krizari teams. Pichler was probably involved in this during 1945, but whether or not he was one of the stay-behinds is unknown, although I strongly doubt it. Those members of his unit that did were tracked down and exterminated to a man during 1945-46. There are some excellent threads on Axis History Forum concerning SS-Jagdverband Südost, much of it contributed by me. See in the "Minor Axis Nations" sub-forum in the main menu.

--Larry

[Edgar Alcidi]

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Thanks for the great imputs Larry. I will take a look at it

Guys, if you are interested in the Wehrpass simply send me a PM with a resonable offer
Edgar

[Gary T]

A stash of documents to this unit Serbien-Kroatien./SS-Jagdverband Südost was found a few years ago. I had ten of WPs and and two soldbuchs which I sold this year.

Some of them were long term Brandenburg members (1939-1944), army transfers in 1943 to various Brandenburg units and then onto SS-Jagdverband Südost and some new recruits. The story I was told is that a medic of the unit kept all the documents. My feeling is they were from a HQ unit of some kind at least by the end of the war. I don't think they were the documents of people behind the lines in Yuogslavia.

To be honest I'm not sure you'll get your best price for it here. I couldn't sell mine for love nor money on E-Stand.

The price the dealer sold this one for was five times what I got a couple of mine on E-stand...and they had more combat and service with Brandenburg units in Russia. One even won the EK1 on Leros whilst with Brandenburg...no nibbles on E-Stand and the same dealer who sold this one bought it.

[Larry deZeng]

Interesting background, Gary T. If true, I wonder if the medic made it safely into Austria in May 1945 and buried the documents somewhere until years later when the heat had simmered down, and then dug them up. Or, if the medic and the collection of documents fell into Yugoslav hands at the end of the war and the documents were then stolen out of an archive a few years ago. A lot of that sort of thing was kept in boxes in the Vojno Istorijski institut (VII) in Belgrade. Remember the NATO air war against Serbian forces in the early 1990's? Well, some of the VII buildings were hit by U.S. bombs and during the aftermath when there was no security some stuff was looted. A clutch of 10 or more WPs all coming to market at once makes me very suspicious.

--Larry

[Gary T]

Interesting background, Gary T. If true, I wonder if the medic made it safely into Austria in May 1945 and buried the documents somewhere until years later when the heat had simmered down, and then dug them up. Or, if the medic and the collection of documents fell into Yugoslav hands at the end of the war and the documents were then stolen out of an archive a few years ago. A lot of that sort of thing was kept in boxes in the Vojno Istorijski institut (VII) in Belgrade. Remember the NATO air war against Serbian forces in the early 1990's? Well, some of the VII buildings were hit by U.S. bombs and during the aftermath when there was no security some stuff was looted. A clutch of 10 or more WPs all coming to market at once makes me very suspicious.

--Larry

Larry,

According to what I was told he had all the documents in his possession and had brought them back. There were certainly more then 10 as I've seen others (including this one) for sale on other sites. This was about three years ago.

The AHF site on the unit claims they retreated into Austria and fought against the Soviets.

Anyhow the reason I believe these were HQ personnel is the type of training\replacement units they come from medical, drivers and infantry engineers. There were a couple with combat awards but most without - one was also fluent in Serbo-Croat and was a translator. All bar two served with various Brandenburg regiments before being assigned to either Einheit Kirchner, Einheit Böckl or Verband Wildschütz (all Brandenburg units in Yugoslavia - http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=68686).

Cheers,
Gary.

[peter u]

Hello,

Like Larry claims this wp's & sb's most likely come from an archive source.
Just like the majority of the MIA pilots, KL Sachsenhausen guards, Rasse und Umsiedelungs Hauptamt,....etc.

Also I want to confirm what Gary said that these type of exotic unit wp's are difficult to sell on.
In the past I myself had an intrest in penal units and also I had problems selling them on when I lost my intrest.
Honestly it wasn't easy to sell documents from more "popular" fronts also.
Once you have been on the selling side of this hobby, you know what I'am talking about.
Collectors rather buy from dealers because they can trade in items of their own collection and/or have a lay away plan,...etc.

Cheers,
Peter

[Edgar Alcidi]

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Hi Peter, I will probably have to agree with you with selling this one. Well if the people want to pay more buying from a dealer...No problems from my side. Collectors are strange "animals", I see sometimes pretty nice stuff here in the estand unsold and then the last piece of junk gone in a second on some dealers homepages...

The second document is a Soldbuch from a hohenstaufen soldier, so nothing to do with the Jagdverband. I will try to make few shots of it.
Edgar

[Larry deZeng]

Peter wrote:

Also I want to confirm what Gary said that these type of exotic unit wp's are difficult to sell on.

I guess in some convoluted way that makes sense, Peter. People are probably more comfortable dealing with the familiar than the unknown. Exotic or unusual units scare many away because the average collector knows nothing about them. They are "at home" with the Panzer divisions, the numbered Heer divisions and most of the Waffen-SS divisions, but past that they are stepping into the unknown. I truly wish more of them were interested in history, but they just aren't. I think research, studying and learning reminds them too much of their school days!

--Larry

[peter u]

Hi Larry,

"I truly wish more of them were interested in history, but they just aren't."

- My thoughts also!

P

[Edgar Alcidi]

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The WP is SOLD!

[Larry deZeng]

Gary wrote:

According to what I was told he had all the documents in his possession and had brought them back. There were certainly more then 10 as I've seen others (including this one) for sale on other sites. This was about three years ago.
The AHF site on the unit claims they retreated into Austria and fought against the Soviets.
Anyhow the reason I believe these were HQ personnel is the type of training\replacement units they come from medical, drivers and infantry engineers. There were a couple with combat awards but most without - one was also fluent in Serbo-Croat and was a translator. All bar two served with various Brandenburg regiments before being assigned to either Einheit Kirchner, Einheit Böckl or Verband Wildschütz (all Brandenburg units in Yugoslavia -

SS-Jagdverband Südost was still spread over quite a large area in 1945. I have a significant amount of material on the formation, including some postwar interrogation reports carried out by U.S. CIC personnel. The Counterintelligence War Room in London had collected a large number of documents, reports and interrogations on it by 1946, but I was only able to recover about a quarter of this material.

As for thr WPs, I cannot prove that they were among the loot removed from VII 15 or so years ago, but I'm not convinced otherwise. Hopefully, the truth will be found some day.

--Larry

[leibregiment]

I have looked for a good book on the history of SS-Jagdverband but cannot find any (apart from Larry's research) can anyone recommend an English language book?

I would be very interested in any other documents/passes on the subject, as ever thanks, Paul