Just another note... Its pretty much any way he died right its such a vague word "DIED". Did he die on top of a hooker, heart attack, combat, shot, or hit by car... I was offering a soldbuch to a Horst Wessel soldbuch stated gestorben no reason why, he was a younger man around the time the Russians were in Breslau 1945.. Most likely anyway he could of died right??? i guess we have to use our imaginations..
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The Russian word is "умер" -- it means "died."Comment
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Thank you for the correct translation.. I feel like a loser
Comment
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Hi,
"verstorben" and "ymep" .......died !!!, one would think that the man wasn't executed but died in Russian captivity.
yours friendly
Eric-Jan BakkerComment
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Russian captivity
Have any of you guys seen alot of documentation dealing with of writing in Russian in soldbuchs? Would they really write executed in the soldbuch or if they beat him to death? We know of the cruelty in Russian camps. Just curious if anyone has other examples to show.Comment
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Hello SpanischeSS,
It works the otherway around.
If you have an sb and you claim that it is the sb from an executed soldier you need evidence that he is executed.
- It is written in the sb.
And/or
- His name is listed in a reference book or document as being executed.
If you have a sb from a soldier that died as POW, you can use your phantasy and make up a story that he was beaten to dead by his guards but if you don't have any proof for that story it is still your selfmade story nothing more.
In this case is what you see is what you get!
Another story perhaps:
- He knew that Stalin was a nazi party member since 1931 and there for the NKVD murdered him and covered up his dead as an accident.
Cheers,
PeterComment
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Hi
I have nothing to add to discussion above.
Just wanted to share a Soldbuch from my collection.
Looks to be the same handwriting??
AJComment
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Some interesting points have been brought up and nice to see another example with the same word written in the soldbuch.
As for the original soldbuch, I would again advice to have a look at the medical entries. As he probably "just" died in Russian captivity, there may be some clues if he had serious health problem even during the war.Comment
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spanicss,Originally posted by SpanischeSS View Post
Well there are more booklets with such a Russian writing in collectors hands and on the market, although I didn't know before what the word "ymep" ment.....didn't even know what word was written there !!!
But now knowing that there is a market for such booklets I will be on the look out for such Soldbücher, and sure......." beaten to death, tortured to death, executed " and all other cruel things one can imagine sounds much better than a simple " died in Soviet captivity "
Hope that there are any takers or interested collectors for the booklets when I have them for sale, or as often said / written / mentioned before buy the item not the story, or come back with proof.
yours friendly
Eric-Jan BakkerComment
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Alex,
The color of the red pencil does look the same, but to me the handwriting itself looks different.
Do you have any other info on your man's death ?
yours friendly
Eric-Jan BakkerComment
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Peter,
I know English is not your primary language. Once again, I was not making up a fantasy story on this mans fate ( I was told this). It is possible anything happened to him.. If you have ever collected soldbuchs you should know not everything is in detail or listed in them exactly how it should be.
Tim brought up a good point. The hospital page is completely blank in Turner's soldbuch.
ThanksComment
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Hi Eric
The only thing I know about my Soldbuch is, that the man served with the Nordland Division, which was captured in Berlin !
AJComment
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Hello SpanischeSS,
Do you mean that I can't proof he was executed, he most likely is?
What is actually the evidence that you have that Turner was executed?
- The previous owner told you.
- Cruel things happend to German soldiers while they where pow in Russia.
- And their are no details in the sb not to claim he was executed.
Is that really all?
That is sad research imo.
The details how the soldier died are never or very seldom mentioned in the soldbuch.
So if you only have the soldbuch you never have the details how the soldier died exactly, does this mean that we have to start using oure phantasy to fill in that detail? NO!
Facts that is the only thing that matters.
All the rest is just salesman technique to upgrade a dull event.
Some examples:
- In my collection I have a sb from an AA 116 Pz Div who is kia in the battle of the bulge, their are no details of how he was kia in that sb, it isn't even mentioned that he is kia, no red strips,....etc.
How do I know that he is actually kia in the bulge?
He died on January 6th 1945 and is buried in Lommel (Belgium), his unit was at that time in actif in Hotton. Enough evidence for me that he was kia in the battle of the bulge.
Do I have details of how he was kia? No.
Now I can start using my phantasy: perhaps he was tortured/executed by US soldiers, captured by Belgian resistance members that tortured him for two weeks before the shot him,.....the options are endless.
- In my collection I had once the flugbuch of a bomberpilot he was shot down and kia during the Polish-campagne in September 1939. He was killed in the crash, the three other crewmembers were tortured to dead by Polish civilians.
How do I know that?
The event is described in the unit history reference book of the geschwader he belonged to: evidence!
You can dream on about those sb/wp's with the word "ymep" written in it, but I'am going to keep it to facts not phantasy.
If you are going to believe the stories the dealers tell you ......
Also it isn't my task to keep the e-stand free from salesman talk, that is a job for the forummoderators.
Cheers,
PeterComment
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"the three other crewmembers were tortured to dead by Polish civilians.
How do I know that?
The event is described in the unit history reference book of the geschwader he belonged"
Sounds like propaganda to me . Whatever the story on the sb is its very interesting and has caused great debate ,not many sb's have the honour of 4 pages of threads .Rob.God please take justin bieber and gave us dio backComment
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Hello Robb,
Another example for you:
- In my collection I have the BWM of Lt Cmdr O.H.hanson RNVR (Benbow Bat.) executed by a German firing squad October 10th 1914 in Eksaarde (Belgium).
How I know that he was executed?
- This event has been discribed in the RN reference books.
- Their is even an article on a website that discribs the actual event that took place that let to his execution, his dead was also used by the British to make anti German propaganda.
The Germanbomber crew that bailed out was found with their eyes stabed out, this was a fate for a lot of German aircrew that got shotdown in Poland, Belgium and France in 1939/40. The German autorities ofcourse used this events as propaganda but this doesn't mean they didn't happen.
Cheers,
PeterComment
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