Opinions on Concentration camp Wehrpass

[Anthony N]

HI Folks.
Hope you can help me here.
I am not a collector of Wehrpasses as such although i have one, but i have been thinking about buying a concentration camp guards Wehrpass for a while & one has popped up on the E-stand.
I am a bit lost really so was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on this one, i can't translate these, so don't know how long he was there & if that's the only place he was ever posted etc.
Here's the link:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=213686
Thanks,
Ant.

[Nico C]

Before buying, please wait definately for an opinion of one of the experienced guys. Those KZ wp's are a real minefield, trust me.

Best,

[Nico C]

I see that Peter is watching this thread .

[peter u]

Hello,

Sorry but I'am going to be very blunt on that example: It is as fake as fake can be.
A good example of an upgraded grandfather wp with fake stamps.
And I'am not blaiming the seller; perhaps he just doesn't know.
Just look at the thread on this forum about KL wp's from a few months ago their are many examples posted of KL-sachsenhausen wp's by other forummembers that have the authentic KL-Sachsenhausen stamps in them.
You can see the difference quite easly.
The wp in question has been posted their for debat I'am sure of it, because I had it placed their by the forummoderator myself.
KL-Sachsenhausen are the most commen KL wp's you can find and I have seen many of them but never an original with those type of stamps in them.
Ofcours I allready know the answer to my repley:
- Probabily the stamps used in this wp are just an anomalie on the standard concerning KL-Sachesenhausen wp's.

Please look at the thread. I know the images of the Kl-Auschwitz wp that thread started with are gone, but I remember it very well; and this wp on debat now comes from the same faker. It has the same type of stamps in it!

Cheers,
Peter

[Nico C]

I must agree with Peter.
I was the original buyer of that "Auschwitz WP". The type of stamps are the same.
Peter warned me through email yesterday about this wp btw.

Even if it was good, $315 (now $280) seems a bit too high for me.


Best,

[Anthony N]

Thanks Peter & Nico, that is very good of you, i have heard that these are faked a lot so thought it was best to ask, but also i dod not know how to read them!
Ant.

[Kaile67]

Hi dear Forum Members,

Thanks for discussing the WP. I'm the seller, I can only say that this passport is ok. I bought it from a dealer which I would put my hand into the fire. The thing is, that they have taken every Hans and Franz to the SS-Wachb. at the end of the war. There have been not much Soldier left in the own country, and The Landwehr people or even sometime the Volksturm Members, did get awarded to what ever. So it happend that some noname suddenly become a member of the SS.

If this Ausweiss is really wrong, which I absolutly doubt, then I will take it back from who ever bought it or will buy it. I have done so many deal in the past, there have been all good and no complains so far.

Thanks, Kai

[sscrooge]

ss

i too was sold a very similar fake ss kl wehrpass on e-stand just wish i could remember who slotted me with it

[SpanischeSS]

Re: SS wehrpass

The book looks good to me! The stamps are fine on it. There are a set of Fake Auschwitz stamper and Flossenburg floating around in the past.

[peter u]

Hello Kai,

Please look at the thread about the KL wp's from several months ago, you w'll see the differences between the many authentic KL-Sachsenhausen wp's that have been on the market in the past.
For example look at the many original KL-Sachsenhausen wp's Polux posted on that thread.
Sorry to say but you got your hands burned.
Ofcours I was expecting this type of repley, the typical debat with a dealer that gives live long guarantee on his items.
I have seen this before:
- You probabily w'll keep on believing that it is original : no problem with that wp and the others - hoera!, we just discovered a new type of KL-Sachsenhausen stamp!.
No matter how much evidence is brought up to declare it fake.
This is not a type of debat I want to get involved in.
A part of the responsabilty lays with the buyers of this type of wp also, they should do their own research before the buy such a wp.
To buy items you don't have enough knowledge about only with a "the dealer declares it authentic and gives guarentee" is imo quite naive.
So this is my last repley on the wp on debat here:
For the third and final time, the KL-Sachsenhausen entries are 100% FAKE, and it is not even a difficult type of fake to detect also, also if you only have a little knowledge about this type of wp.
Now I leave it to the forummoderators.
I think it is their job to guard the e-stand from fakes, not mine.


Cheers,
Peter

[Kaile67]

Hi Peter,

thanks for all your effort into this. But at the moment I think it is state against state. To proof either of us, we would need an official expertiese.

Anyway, as I said, I'm not 100% either all the time, only I stated was, that I'm 100% sure this pass is right, and if someone brings it to an expert saying it's a fake, I would take it back and appolgize.

But I also think it is good to talk about these kind of matters, nobody is perfect and in the past I always tried to be correct to all my customers and had no complains so far.

cheers, Kai

[peter u]

Hello kai,

I don't want to attack you personal, let that be clear.
What your customercare policy is, that is something for you.
Who do you think is an expert on this? Is he or she actif on this forum?
You know all to well that on this forum it is always very difficult to claim that a dealer is selling fakes, collectors are going to be affraid of ending up on that dealers "black list" not able to buy the good, authenitic wp in the future.
Because I don't longer actively searching for TR related documents I don't care about ending up on any "black lists".
And like I said in my previous posting: guarding the e-stand from fakes is imo the moderators job.
And if they don't have enough knowledge about KL related documents why don't they ask for advise from collectors that have the necessary knowledge?
If the forummembers want to debat this wp and that from scrooge also again in a new thread no problem for me, I'll proof my point again and again if necessary just to prevent that new collectors end up with those dodgy wp's in their collection. Also it is not very nice to have the wp's from totally innocent German civilians turned in to documents that are proof that they were involved in crimes against humanity. Someone ever thought about that?
What we need is images from the wp you are selling, that from scrooge, the image from that Auschwitz III wp the thread started with and the other images from the original wp's posted in that previous thread.
Then in the end everyone intrested in KL related documents w'll become an expert because I can tell you we have seen are some very impressive 100% authentic KL related wp's and sb's and the difference between the one you are selling is enormous.

Cheers,
Peter

[sscrooge]

s

well heres some of mine that some1 on here sold me

[sscrooge]

w

2

[peter u]

Hello SpanischeSS,

Is it not very rare that they used the same stamps in Auschwitz III and in Sachsenhausen?
Perhaps they had the same officesupply dealer, he made good deals for the KL-administration offices.

P