Detlev - Army.Wehrpaß - KIA in Poland at 8.9.1939

[Panzer Rob]

Now that does confuse me as you referred to Detlev in a thread about Detlev selling items!?!?!?!?!

Ian,

I wasn't "singling" him out, he just happened to be the example of the split books I mentioned in my first post. As you know, lots of dealers and collectors alike do it. Perhaps I should edit my first post to say "Anyone have anything to say about these books being split"

Rob

[peter u]

Hello Rob,

It is a difficult debate, what will you do when their is for example a RK grouping not only sb & wp but also his award documents, photoalbums, original worn on the batlle field medals and uniform items.
But for the most of us we can only afford one singel item of this type of groups so they are splited up if we want it or not.

We can not come to the conclusion that spliting up of cheaper items is wrong and for expensive ones it is OK.

This is a moral question that everyone has to answer for himself.

It is not because everybody else does it, it becomes acceptable!

This is also one of the reasons I stoped actively collecting these items the were to expensive for me to keep them together and seing them been splited up made me feel sad. Telling lies to myself that I didn't mind that for example the RK awarddocument was somewhere else in a good collection was in the end not a good solution. So I stoped cold turkey and found other type's of militaria to collect.

Greetings
Peter

[Ian Jewison]

Rob,

I know but how it read was that you were!

As Peter also pointed out, dealers are not the only ones that do this....to be honest, if the group contains medals etc. and they are guaranteed to be his I will not buy it as the cost is greater and I do not want to split it......however I know many that will......

In a complete group you have many individual collectors......sometimes to split it you will actually get more for it!!!

With that said, I don't like the idea of this being done....

On a good note I have managed to get many groups back together again!!!

/Ian

[peter u]

Thanks Ian for your repley,

With German ww2 militaria items becoming more and more expencive in the future the phenomenonon of spliting up items w'll be seen more and more that I can promise you all.

For example when single photo's started to make small fortunes, it was inevitable that photoalbums were going to be splited up!

For this reason the first thing I stoped collecting was ww2 photoalbums; this was my first collecting intrest and w'll be my old love forever.
This hobby is killed by his own popularity.

And all the collectors, also me have to look in there own hearts and come to conclusions for themselfs about the issue of spliting up items.

Greetings,
Peter

[Panzer Rob]

Rob,

I know but how it read was that you were!

Sorry about that, it’s definitely not what I intended.

As Peter also pointed out, dealers are not the only ones that do this....to be honest, if the group contains medals etc. and they are guaranteed to be his I will not buy it as the cost is greater and I do not want to split it......however I know many that will......

In a complete group you have many individual collectors......sometimes to split it you will actually get more for it!!! Ian

I know what you guys mean - not many people have 30,000K to drop on a grouping, I know I don't but why split it when obviously there are collectors out there with the means to purchase the entire lot?

It’s a double edged sword, really. Hell, I wouldn't have some of my favorite pieces in my collection if someone didn't split groupings at some past point in time. But in each and every case I bought the items after the group had been split, and a few times bought what I could to keep as much together as possible.

I’ve never actively participated in the splitting of a grouping and I’d feel wrong doing it.

Sure, unforeseen circumstances arise. It’s just that I find it painful to see groupings get split and when you commit to acquiring a large grouping of documents, medals or what have you, I would hope that a collector would try to see to it that if for some reason he was forced to sell, that it would go to someone who would appreciate it and keep it together. I see it as not just having the means to own the grouping, but also the enjoyment and “responsibility” if you well of holding it and preserving it. And we’re not talking about a 10,000 grouping here…To see it done with something as inexpensive as that SB and WP is just upsetting - to me, anyway.

Whatever. To each his own I guess

With that said, I don't like the idea of this being done.... On a good note I have managed to get many groups back together again!!!

I have a few items that I know have split pieces out there waiting to be reunited. Of course, it all boils down to money and priorities, but when that opportunity to reunite items arises, the feeling must be almost intoxicating

Rob

[peter u]

Hello Rob,

I have been standing in front of that fire, you have a big grouping (value + 25.000 euro) that you want to sell or trade. But I had to come to the conclusion it was only posible to sell it on in several splited up parts to get my money back not even profit it was also not a quick decision either or an emergency sell, it was planed for more than one year.
In the collecting world their is only a small group prepared to pay top money for items that is for sure.
For me this small group are the only people who can have an idea about this topic, I'am not intrested in the opinion and judgement of people who buy only small time items. What I do with my money is my problem what others do is theirs.
And if that part of the collecting sociaty decides not to buy your grouping, there are only two options left: keep it or split it up.
The guy's that bought the items from me knew the were buying a splited up group the even stressed they only wanted to buy sperate parts of the group.
The guys who bought these items had the financial means to buy the compleet group but didn't wanted to. You can not force them in buying something they don't want ofcours.
I'am sure other collectors have had similar experiences, if they are honest.

To bad for history, but the only one that makes deciosions concerning my wallet is me!!!

It was for me also a dark day, but it made me realize to that lots of people have an opinion on actions of other people but when they are placed in front of the problem the will act the same that I can promise you all.
There are no white nights amongst us!.

Greetings,
Peter

[Edward]

Jerry-

Sounds like a great pair. I am glad to hear that you were able to get both brother's books. I'd really like to see pictures of them sometime.

Rob, thanks. I was very pleased to aquire them as the content was emotive. They will stay together. Will do. Have to buy a camera first though that can take decent and clear pics of
some of those smaller entries!

Here is another story somewhat off topic. Uniting TR groups is one thing, uniting British campaign medal groups from the 1800's though takes it too another level. I had an 1878-80 Afghan campaign medal, bar Ali-Musjid to an OR of 4 Rifle Brigade bought from a dealers list. Some time later another dealer listed the same man's India General Service Medal, bar 1878 Jowaki. The medal sold before I could get to it. So I contacted the dealer who put me in touch with the buyer. I found out he was a keen collector of RB medals. I figured that both medals should be reunited and sold mine to him. Not only was the other collector thrilled, but just knowing that the group was back together was reward enough.
Jerry

[Gary T]

On the other hand there is also the mysterious phenomena of WPs and SBs who regain their physical awards. Usually I find this is a good way for a dealer to move on damaged or poor quality awards.

As Ian says unless the group has come straight from the family (or you see the entire group before it is split - documents, awards, photo albums, uniforms etc - you have no idea whether they are his actual awards and most document collectors aren't up to speed on awards.

For example, I was once offered a DKiG WP + a badly worn DKiG. The cost for both was in excess of market value due to the condition of the DKiG and the seller refused to split. When I asked he said he had bought them from a dealer and hadn't known where they had been before...but then I saw them on the forum with the comment from the new owner that the DKiG was definitely the WP holder's.

[peter u]

Hello Gary,

What is your opinion when it is the RK awarddocuments and the sb or wp and photoalbums are offered in one lot to you?
This being way out of the most collectors range, these groups will almost al be splited up in to different smaller lots.
And then we are not debating when unform or medals are in the lot.
I find it a big shame but it are the facts.

greetings Peter

[peter u]

When items have a value of let say 2500 € or more it seems to me that most collectors don't have a problem with spliting up groups.
Either to be able to purchese a good piece or to sell/trade their group on.
This I find is a double standard:
When items are in most peoples price range spliting up is bad on the other hand when most peoples can not ar will not be able to buy the compleet group spliting up is OK.
This is my experience in my years of collecting.

What to say about photoalbums being knifed up! To sell the photo separatly to gain the most money out of an album.
This I have seen so many times.
And we can only blame collectors who rater pay a fortune for a single photo than keep an album intact.
Photocollectors have killed their own hobby.

Greetings,
Peter