ss wehrpass info

[peter u]

Hello Polux,

Might it be posible that your Rumainian KZ-guard was killed as an act of revenge whilst he was in French inprisonment?

[peter u]

About the EK2 in the Auschwitz-wp:
On the photo the guard is wearing his EK2 so no problem for me. But I have no idea why it is dated 1944 in the WP.

[Simon O.]

For Simon : vast and complex subject. I advise greatly the reading George H. Stein and Joseph Wulf.

Thanks. I'll look them up.

[Lynton Battrick]

About the EK2 in the Auschwitz-wp:
On the photo the guard is wearing his EK2 so no problem for me. But I have no idea why it is dated 1944 in the WP.

Just out of interest-why would he be pictured with a EK2 ribbon (which he is) when the Wehrpass must have been issued in 1941 and he wasn't awarded the EK2 till 1944.If they replaced photos it can't have been an easy job removing the rivets?

Regards,Lynton.

[polux]

Kl

Hello,

Al : no problem. It is always a pleasure for me to share my passion ;-))

Peter : I have regrettably not an information on the cause of the death of this soldier. I think more certainly of a medical problem. After the end of the conflict, the conditions of internment were sometimes painful for German prisoners.

Barry : about the Wehrpass Regetz : it would be possible to present the page 1 ? or for lack of this image, to indicate the date of reception of this Wehrpass ? Could you also show an increase of the Regetz's photography ? Beforehand thank you.

Lynton : I think that the Wehrpass Regetz was delivered after 1941. I hope that Barry will be able to bring more preciseness.

Simon : saddened to have brief been in my answer but the subject is too vast so that I begin here a long explanation in a language that I do not master very well ;-))

For example and to indicate a common way to proceed within the German military system, you will find enclosed a first image of an Wehrpass KL established on September 4, 1941. As you will notice it by consulting the following page (page 11) this soldier was already incorporated into an unity (Sachsenhausen) since December, 1939. His Wehrpass was so established almost two years after the beginning of his military service. Why ? I ignore it.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[polux]

Kl

Page 11

[Lynton Battrick]

Lynton : I think that the Wehrpass Regetz was delivered after 1941. I hope that Barry will be able to bring more preciseness.


Hi Polux,
In that Wehrpass, his first unit was dated from the 17-02-1941.Surely his Wehrpass was issued around that time, if not before this date?
Would that not have been when the photo was put in too?
regards,Lynton.

[peter u]

Wp issued after the first day of service I have seen it many times before with ss members specialy with early ones. I don't have a problem with them!!!

I have an early ss-germania member in my collection with the same thing: started service in 1 nov 38 , wp issued 11 nov 38 not by a wehrkreis but by is actif unit "ss-germania".

Again this has to do with the compulsory military service laws in ww2 Germany a very complex matter difficult to explain in a short text. SS membership even waffen ss didn't count as military service. Changes had to be made in German law to prevent ss personel being drafted in the army and also for the waffen ss to recrute personel avoiding conflict with the army. It becomes even more complex with non-German ss-members.

Like I and Polux said before a very complex matter that needs much studie!Also I'am glad to share my knowledge with all of you.
But you have to be open minded about early ss wp and sb it is not the same logica as army wp and sb. With open minded I don't mean naive but commen sence. Read books about early waffen ss and watch other wp and sb with your fellow collectors, don't be affraid to ask questions and this complex matter will explain it self after a while.

[polux]

Kl

Hello,

Lynton : Considering the presence of the band for EK2 (decoration received in 1944) on the Regetz's photo, I think that it is about a second Wehrpass (Zweitschrift).

It is also possible that this Wehrpass dates effectively of 1941 but that no registration of military district was on the page 1 and no photo on the page 2. The photo and the registration of the page 1 were only added in 1944.

To confirm this, I wait for news of Barry.

To illustrate my last proposition, you will find enclosed an image of a Wehrpass which does not contain any registration of military district on the page 1, no photo on the page 2. Nevertheless this soldier fought since April, 1942 to in November, 1944 in the division Florian Geyer.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[Stormfighter]

Here is a photo of page 1 from the Regetz Wehrpass. The Wehrpass was issued in Wien (Vienna) on 12 August 1943 by Wehrbezirkskommando Wien II. At that time, Regetz was serving with the 2. Stabskompanie of SS-Totenkopfsturmbann Auschwitz. The photo would have been added at that time. The Wehrpass was then presumably forwarded to Auschwitz, where it was retained until Regetz was transferred to Flossenbuerg.

Barry

[polux]

Kl

Hello,

Barry : thank you for the image of the page 1 of the WP Regetz ;-))

As I thought it, this WP was completed late by the military administration : only in 1943.

Nevertheless, I do not explain myself the presence of the band for EK2 over the photography present on the page 2. It is possible that this decoration (EK2) was attributed (WP figure 24) before the advisable date and this just after the allocation of the wound badge silver, (automatic allocation, see article Chris Boonzair #55). Affair to follow.

You will find enclosed an image of a WP of a Slovak volunteer incorporated into the KL Mauthausen. The same military district and same signature.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

[Stormfighter]

I imagine that it is possible that the Wehrpass remained in Wien and sometime after Regetz was awarded the E.K. II, he forwarded a photo of himself to Wehrbezirkskommando Wien (sometime after March 1944), which then added the photo. The Wehrpass may have remained at the Wehrbezirkskommando, but probably was forwarded to Auschwitz.

Barry

[Chris Boonzaier]

It is possible that this decoration (EK2) was attributed (WP figure 24) before the advisable date and this just after the allocation of the wound badge silver, (automatic allocation, see article Chris Boonzair #55). Affair to follow.

Cordial greetings.

Polux

I dont know.... the last 3 awards in post 8 all seem bullsht to me.

From what I remember

1) Inf Assault was awarded at Regt level... but he has it from his Divisions commander.
2) Silver wound badge docs were usually signed by a doctor, but there an SS general gives it to him
3) For some strange reason his EK2 follows the Silver wound a year later... very unusual... then it is awarded by Himmler himself? Usually, if a guy was badly wounded (enough for a silver) and in a hospital, the Wehrkreis Stellvertreter commande rwould whip out the award doc right away...

I have not really dealt with WW2 stuff for ages... but I would not buy this book.

[Stormfighter]

I dont know.... the last 3 awards in post 8 all seem bullsht to me.

From what I remember

1) Inf Assault was awarded at Regt level... but he has it from his Divisions commander.

Infantry assault badges were often awarded on a divsional level and signed by the divisional commander! Not strange at all!

2) Silver wound badge docs were usually signed by a doctor, but there an SS general gives it to him

Wound badge documents were often signed by doctors, but not always. They were usually signed by a doctor if the soldier was still in the hospital at the time the award was given. An SS general could have easily approved the award of the Silver Wound Badge. It doesn't mean that the general handed it over, it simply means that he signed a document that approved the bestowal of an award. The signed document could have contained the names of dozens of recipients.

3) For some strange reason his EK2 follows the Silver wound a year later... very unusual... then it is awarded by Himmler himself? Usually, if a guy was badly wounded (enough for a silver) and in a hospital, the Wehrkreis Stellvertreter commande rwould whip out the award doc right away...

Regetz was obviously badly wounded, which took him out of a combat role and landed him at Auschwitz. Again, his E.K. II was not neccesarily awarded by Himmler directly, he probably just signed the document that contained a list of names. The E.K. II was often awarded to camp guards, especially if they stopped escapes - this is well -documented in the records of the Auschwitz Museum. Himmler did, in fact, at times sign the award documents for some of the lower level awards such as the K.V.K. II or E.K. II.

I have not really dealt with WW2 stuff for ages... but I would not buy this book.

I have Regetz's records from the Auschwitz Museum and his personnel file from the National Archives confirming his service and awards.

Barry

[polux]

Kl

Hello,

Chris : I perfectly understand your reasoning. Nevertheless, I find surprising that the registration of the military district which is on the page 1 and that the stamps which are on the photo of the page 2 of the WP Regetz correspond to the registrations of an another document of my collection. This means that the photo of the page 2 Regetz is authenticated by the presence of these two stamps so in the same time, I deduct from it that the allocation of the decorations is correct.

With regard to the way to attribute the decorations : I am in discussion for the purchase of a group of document SS Polizei with a diploma for wounded signed by a SS Obergruppenführer. I possess in my collection a diploma KVK 2. KL. attributed by Himmler.

I understand your doubts Chris but I think that the best way to confirm the registrations of this document, which puts problem, would be to contact the various German archives (Wast, etc...).

Cordial greetings.

Polux