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i think this wehrpass i own from a member of 21 panzer saw some action
i think this wehrpass i own from a member of 21 panzer saw some action
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Damn nice!Comment
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site for wehrpass
Can anyone give me a link to a wehrpass web site that breaks the pages down one by one.Comment
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Soldbuch or Wehrpass- what´s better?
Well, this sounds to me like : Brunette or blonde, what´s better?
To tell you the truth:
Both.
Right at the same time, best guided by their red ´black sisters ( nice photo album and a dogtag...)
Okay, Christmas is far away, but there are some advantages that make me perefer the Wehrpaß:
- Condition is usually better, and in most cases you don´t necessarily have to be an expert in reading hieroglyphs and cryptic words.
- Less Wehrpasses were drenched in water or whatever, were torn apart or have missing pages,
-There are more Soldbücher with a missing photo than Wehrpasses.
- The units and battles are lined up in a straight sequence so the military career can be seen easily. Nothing crossed out ore lined.
- Medals and decorations are available just like in a Soldbuch.
- A Soldbuch will never have a Gefechtskalender that can be folded out in a length of 60 cm (2 feet)
2 minor disadvantages of a Wehrpaß:
- Usually the Soldbuch has a uniform photo, the Wehrpaß a civil one.
- Most Soldbücher are slightly more expensive
A big one:
- A Wehrpaß will never tell you about firearms the soldier received, a real loss for a firearms collector like me.
BUT: I would never refuse to take a Soldbuch if it´s even slightly interesting......cool pics in this thread, by the way...i really like the Wehrpaß down there with the photo of the girl!Last edited by Rotti; 02-03-2009, 05:47 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by Rotti View PostSoldbuch or Wehrpass- what´s better?
Well, this sounds to me like : Brunette or blonde, what´s better?
To tell you the truth:
Both.
Right at the same time, best guided by their red ´black sisters ( nice photo album and a dogtag...)
Okay, Christmas is far away, but there are some advantages that make me perefer the Wehrpaß:
- Condition is usually better, and in most cases you don´t necessarily have to be an expert in reading hieroglyphs and cryptic words.
- Less Wehrpasses were drenched in water or whatever, were torn apart or have missing pages,
-There are more Soldbücher with a missing photo than Wehrpasses.
- The units and battles are lined up in a straight sequence so the military career can be seen easily. Nothing crossed out ore lined.
- Medals and decorations are available just like in a Soldbuch.
- A Soldbuch will never have a Gefechtskalender that can be folded out in a length of 60 cm (2 feet)
2 minor disadvantages of a Wehrpaß:
- Usually the Soldbuch has a uniform photo, the Wehrpaß a civil one.
- Most Soldbücher are slightly more expensive
A big one:
- A Wehrpaß will never tell you about firearms the soldier received, a real loss for a firearms collector like me.
BUT: I would never refuse to take a Soldbuch if it´s even slightly interesting......cool pics in this thread, by the way...i really like the Wehrpaß down there with the photo of the girl!
Soldbuch only,
I consider wehrpass to be just a DESK document that never seen the war.
IT can't have the same character that Soldbuchs have ,being worn in combat,being with the soldier for almost all the time during assaults etc.
That is why people prefers soldbuchs and Soldbuchs are more expansive.
Soldbuchs are real witnesses of the war IMO.the wehrpass is just a book that lyed on a desk.
DanieleLast edited by Daniele C; 05-16-2009, 06:53 AM.Comment
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Daniele, I must disagree with your statement that the Wehrpass is just a desk document that never saw the war. The Wehrpass was carried with the unit, the Soldbuch with the soldier and the Wehrstammbuch with the home unit. Why are there "Zweitschrift" Wehrpäße if they did not see the war? I have the Wehrpass (Zweitschrift) of Oberst Alfred Wittmann who broke out of the encirclement of Tscherkassy- his Wehrpass was lost there. Often the units were overrun or encircled and the Wehrpäße lost. I personally prefer to have both the Soldbuch and Wehrpass in those few cases where this is possible. Then you have a more complete picture of the training, military actions etc. Soldbücher are fine but they only give an incomplete picture of the soldier and in my view the more documentation the better!
PzVComment
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Jim,
I meant what you said above,as in the wehrpass having been on a desk of the unit clerk they didnt see the action and have that "smell of war" that a soldbuch has as the soldbuch was carried with the soldier so the Soldbuch seen action with the soldier while the wehrpass was with the unit clerk.That s all i mean and it s just my opinion.Of course in the wehrpass we Have some infos that are not present in the soldbuch but it s also the opposite.So between the 2 i prefer the soldbuch.
I agree that the best is always to have both soldbuch and wehrpass but unfortunately it s not always possible.
DanieleComment
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btt
Like Daniele said, the SB has more character and you know it was carried with the soldier. It was in combat, went thought the wounds, and alot of times has the capture notations. The WP is more of a desk document that may have more info, but it didn't bleed with the soldier
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PzV
I fully concur with your last posting. I've a number of Zweitschrift Wehrpasses, some, not all, have an hand written entry (page 46 - Nachträge) - "Wehrpass issued so & so date - original lost through enemy action" and signed by a officer.
RegardsComment
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this is nothing to fight about however and is only a matter of preference. I also admit that I have and have had some Soldbücher that were really on the front. But the information in the Wehrpass really helps to get the full picture and as an example, a grouping I got from a 24th Pz Rgt soldier would not be recognized as Panther without the Wehrpass entry (OK, I have some other documentation also but this is not always the case). Years ago when thinning out my SS documents I got rid of a Soldbuch which had a bullet hole in it and was somewhat difficult to read for apparent reason. That one had defenitely been on the front. This discussion is interesting but I think we already have come to our own decisions if I am not mistaken.
PzVComment
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There are some cases, such as mine, where I am taking any Soldbuch or Wehrpass available. I am speaking of the case where someone collects a special unit, and that is the case where it does not matter so much if the piece is a SB or a WP.
On a more general case, I do prefer the Soldbuch versus the Wehrpass, on the same grounds as stated before me - more "personality" added by being carried into battle.
Cheers,
AlexComment
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I have already mentioned that I prefer Soldbuch over Wehrpaß, however I do like it when both documents are there as you can get a bigger picture.
In particular for Army and SS units as the Soldbuch does not hold dates of transfer unlike Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine.
However, this does not very often occur but Soldbuch, Wehrpaß, Wehrstammbuch, Gesundheitsbuch, Kriegsstammrollenblatte etc. Then you have the whole picture....I only have 3 examples where I have every document!
With that said in one case each document has been filled in differently or awards not entered fully in one, missing completey in another etc.....I was requested to post one of these and hopefully over the weekend I will.
Everyone has their own interests......like do you support Manchester United or Barcelona......Europeans should understand this!
/IanPhotos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection
Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1
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Barcelona was the match winner, but I support Manchester United.Comment
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WP vs. SB
Just to keep the tread lively.
I'm a fence sitter regarding SB vs. WP, like them both however I would have to take issue with the comment about the SB always "seeing the action", at least in the case of Luftwaffe flying personnel. I have some pretty pristine SB owned by flying personnel who never came back from their missions.
Flight crews did not carry their Soldbucher while on missions and therefore, I guess, would be classified as desk documents? Hmmm not buying that, ultimately they both tell the story of soldiers who were in some pretty risking engagements. But that I suspect we can all agree on.
JeremyComment
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I prefer Soldbuchs over Wehrpass for many of the reasons mentioned in this thread.
Having said that I would rather have a pair to the same soldier.
In the end though, a good Wehrpass will still find a home in my collection.
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