Announcement

**Adrian Stevenson** · 01-06-2006, 04:41 PM

It is bad.

The way the wording is done is incorrect.

Cheers, Ade.

**florian_geyer72** · 01-06-2006, 04:47 PM

oh no !

what's is the right wording for LAH tag?
So i must learn to recognize them for the future.

tx.

**Adrian Stevenson** · 01-06-2006, 05:00 PM

The way that one is worded does not make sense. "1 SS Pz Div LAH"

It just lists the Division and no lower sub units like Company and Regiment.

So, for example, a tag for a member of "1st Kompanie, SS Panzer Regt 1 LAH" should read like this:

"1 / SS Pz Regt 1 LAH"

German dog tags are now very widely faked. Be careful of anything SS or Panzer related. Read as many threads on the forum about them as possible. You should also pick up a couple of books on the subject too. There are only a couple of these and have been recommended on the forum in the past.

Hope this helps?

Cheers, Ade.

**Maxwars** · 01-08-2006, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by Adrian Stevenson

The way that one is worded does not make sense. "1 SS Pz Div LAH"

It just lists the Division and no lower sub units like Company and Regiment.

So, for example, a tag for a member of "1st Kompanie, SS Panzer Regt 1 LAH" should read like this:

"1 / SS Pz Regt 1 LAH"

German dog tags are now very widely faked. Be careful of anything SS or Panzer related. Read as many threads on the forum about them as possible. You should also pick up a couple of books on the subject too. There are only a couple of these and have been recommended on the forum in the past.

Hope this helps?

Cheers, Ade.

Hi to all! I've been looking for another tag in Hoidal's book and have found this tag with SAME wording - page 77 - so this tag can be not a fake

**Adrian Stevenson** · 01-08-2006, 05:52 AM

Hi, sorry I don't have this book so I cannot comment on that.

But I don't understand the way it is written?

Also we must remember that just because the tag is written the same way as the one in the book, it does not make it original.

I will leave that question to be answered by those more familiar with dog tags than me

Cheers, Ade.

**Simon O.** · 01-08-2006, 06:44 AM

Simple question. What is the purpose of a dog tag?

It's purpose is to be able to identify the wearer after death isn't it. So either the whole of the division used this standard of marking (which it didn't) or this was just used by some of the senior officers at divisional HQ. but even then you'd expect a Stab in there somewhere.

**Matt L** · 01-08-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Maxwars

Hi to all! I've been looking for another tag in Hoidal's book and have found this tag with SAME wording - page 77 - so this tag can be not a fake

Sure it can- fakers read H******246;idal's book too. All they have to do is copy any known authentic text, and that's why it's necessary to evaluate many characteristics of a disc to determine its authenticity. Text might be fine, but lettering might be of a known fake type- like the disc that was asked about. Not only that, but just because he wrote a book doesn't mean that Jean H******246;idal is the ultimate expert on Erkennungsmarken or is unable to make mistakes; he does seem to know a fair bit, but there are a bunch of discs in his first book that I think are suspicious and would require very concrete proof to believe they're real.

Ade and Simon are quite correct- the text on the disc in question is very odd and unlikely to be correct. The only discs I've ever seen on which the Division is stated are those from the Division command- and that's marked 'Kdo'. This disc is definitely too general. The lettering is a well-known fake type anyway- it's a simple disc marked with something some unsuspecting collector would immediately recognize and if he didn't have a lot of knowledge of Erkennungsmarken or even the normal unit designation practices of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS, he would think it's real.

I have 3 LAH discs in my own collection and I've seen 3 or 4 others (they're VERY rare), and all are simply marked 'L.A.H.' or 'E L.A.H.' ('E' is for Ersatz); I've never seen one marked 'Division' or even 'Pz. Rgt.'. That doesn't mean there were none of course

Ade is also correct that SS discs especially are very widely faked- I'd say that a good 80-90% of the ones I see for sale are fakes. Real ones are quite rare- and named units like the LAH are extremely rare. I wouldn't expect to be able to easily recognize good from bad unless you've been collecting/ studying Erkennungsmarken for a long time- after nearly 6 years of it myself, I'm only now reasonably confident of recognizing real SS discs... and I still ask others for their opinions anyway! Your best bet is to always ask here for opinions before buying ANY SS disc regardless of the source (I've seen many fakes offered with Certificates of Authenticty and on sites of well-known dealers). They really do require special expertise since they're so easy to fake...

Matt

**Maxwars** · 01-08-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Matt L

Sure it can- fakers read Höidal's book too. All they have to do is copy any known authentic text, and that's why it's necessary to evaluate many characteristics of a disc to determine its authenticity. Text might be fine, but lettering might be of a known fake type- like the disc that was asked about. Not only that, but just because he wrote a book doesn't mean that Jean Höidal is the ultimate expert on Erkennungsmarken or is unable to make mistakes; he does seem to know a fair bit, but there are a bunch of discs in his first book that I think are suspicious and would require very concrete proof to believe they're real.

Ade and Simon are quite correct- the text on the disc in question is very odd and unlikely to be correct. The only discs I've ever seen on which the Division is stated are those from the Division command- and that's marked 'Kdo'. This disc is definitely too general. The lettering is a well-known fake type anyway- it's a simple disc marked with something some unsuspecting collector would immediately recognize and if he didn't have a lot of knowledge of Erkennungsmarken or even the normal unit designation practices of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS, he would think it's real.

I have 3 LAH discs in my own collection and I've seen 3 or 4 others (they're VERY rare), and all are simply marked 'L.A.H.' or 'E L.A.H.' ('E' is for Ersatz); I've never seen one marked 'Division' or even 'Pz. Rgt.'. That doesn't mean there were none of course

Ade is also correct that SS discs especially are very widely faked- I'd say that a good 80-90% of the ones I see for sale are fakes. Real ones are quite rare- and named units like the LAH are extremely rare. I wouldn't expect to be able to easily recognize good from bad unless you've been collecting/ studying Erkennungsmarken for a long time- after nearly 6 years of it myself, I'm only now reasonably confident of recognizing real SS discs... and I still ask others for their opinions anyway! Your best bet is to always ask here for opinions before buying ANY SS disc regardless of the source (I've seen many fakes offered with Certificates of Authenticty and on sites of well-known dealers). They really do require special expertise since they're so easy to fake...

Matt

Hi, I don't know about this tag specifically, I've barely found this wording in Hoidal's book today

I want to say that the wording can be right, but of course, fakers can read this book also

**Maxwars** · 01-08-2006, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Matt L

Sure it can- fakers read Höidal's book too. All they have to do is copy any known authentic text, and that's why it's necessary to evaluate many characteristics of a disc to determine its authenticity. Text might be fine, but lettering might be of a known fake type- like the disc that was asked about. Not only that, but just because he wrote a book doesn't mean that Jean Höidal is the ultimate expert on Erkennungsmarken or is unable to make mistakes; he does seem to know a fair bit, but there are a bunch of discs in his first book that I think are suspicious and would require very concrete proof to believe they're real.

Ade and Simon are quite correct- the text on the disc in question is very odd and unlikely to be correct. The only discs I've ever seen on which the Division is stated are those from the Division command- and that's marked 'Kdo'. This disc is definitely too general. The lettering is a well-known fake type anyway- it's a simple disc marked with something some unsuspecting collector would immediately recognize and if he didn't have a lot of knowledge of Erkennungsmarken or even the normal unit designation practices of the Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS, he would think it's real.

I have 3 LAH discs in my own collection and I've seen 3 or 4 others (they're VERY rare), and all are simply marked 'L.A.H.' or 'E L.A.H.' ('E' is for Ersatz); I've never seen one marked 'Division' or even 'Pz. Rgt.'. That doesn't mean there were none of course

Ade is also correct that SS discs especially are very widely faked- I'd say that a good 80-90% of the ones I see for sale are fakes. Real ones are quite rare- and named units like the LAH are extremely rare. I wouldn't expect to be able to easily recognize good from bad unless you've been collecting/ studying Erkennungsmarken for a long time- after nearly 6 years of it myself, I'm only now reasonably confident of recognizing real SS discs... and I still ask others for their opinions anyway! Your best bet is to always ask here for opinions before buying ANY SS disc regardless of the source (I've seen many fakes offered with Certificates of Authenticty and on sites of well-known dealers). They really do require special expertise since they're so easy to fake...

Matt

Hi, I don't know about this tag specifically, I've barely found this wording in Hoidal's book today

I want to say that the wording can be right, but of course, fakers can read this book also

**Gaspare** · 01-09-2006, 12:40 PM

members, try and get the actual photo of the tag up,,the auction and or storage site goes and so do the photos...

This is an early 'rokas' fake. They have since moved on to a more generic looking font for their fakes but there are just so many of the older ones floating around they still burn collectors...

Heres a couple links with that same style font. Study them and don't give others with the same lettering a consideration....

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=Rokas

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=Roka

*

Announcement

Leibstandarte Dog Tag

Leibstandarte Dog Tag

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Users Viewing this Thread