War Merit Cross with Swords 1st Class. Advice please.

[terry.h]

Hi,
Can anyone please just confirm that this War Merit Cross with Swords 1st Class is in order. It is not marked as far as I can see, but perhaps it might be possible to work out who the maker was from the photographs?
I presume it is just a standard run of the mill Cross?
Thanks in advance,
Terry

[terry.h]

b)

[Mikes73]

It looks alot like a Steinhauer and luck KVK1 piece I have but I am no expert.

[tranchant]

kvk1

hello terry
i am not fan on the pin !for me a replacement!
best regards
patrick

[Casper]

I am not a fan of this one.

1. Missing / flattened pebling on the 6 and 9 o'clock arm.
2. Wrong pin.
3. Huge amount of excess material on the back.
4. Not sure, but on last picture could look like casting lines along the edges of the badge.

[terry.h]

War Merit Cross with Swords 1st Class

Here are a few more very detailed photos of the same medal. The missing pebling is now not so clear or pronounced and in actual fact may be caused by slight damage caused by being dented. The excess material is also not so pronounced because the lighting for the photos is far less severe. The magnification of the medal is very high in the additional detailed photos so it would probably exaggerate any imperfections.
In normal size the medal looks perfectly OK with the exception of the pin. But would someone replace the pin on a fake?
One of the edges of the medal appears to be rougher than the others - could this be due to the medal being cast?

[terry.h]

b)

[WRanG]

Not a kvk1 i would have in my collection. I do believe it is a cast fake.

[Stepdale]

Looks like a cast to me, and I couldn't find any pin like that on this website - http://www.ek1-dna.de/.

Dale

[Unfront]

Even if it was real, which it is not, I would certainly wait for a better cross.

[terry.h]

Wmc

Hi Unfront,
I appreciate your response and I am sure you may well be right, but it's not enough just to say something 'isn't real'. I certainly won't dispute it because I don't know enough about medals....that's why I asked about it in the first place. I did have my suspicions however, especially with regard to the pin.
But, why isn't it real? Is it definitely cast, and if it is how do you tell with certainty it is cast? If it is so obvious what do you look for in a cast medal? No one has told me WHAT THE TELL-TALE SIGNS ARE TO LOOK OUT FOR WITH A CAST MEDAL.
I have two other WMC's which I have asked about on various forums and they are considered 100% OK, which is fine, but to be perfectly frank there really aren't any obvious differences to the naked eye that jump out at you.
Thanks in advance,
Terry.

[Stepdale]

I am not a fan of this one.

1. Missing / flattened pebling on the 6 and 9 o'clock arm.
2. Wrong pin.
3. Huge amount of excess material on the back.
4. Not sure, but on last picture could look like casting lines along the edges of the badge.

Terry,
I think Casper nailed most of the details in his post. Even with your new photos, these points remain true.

1. The pebbling near the outer edge of these arms is just not there at all. In addition, the wreath and swastika lack the fine detailing one would expect, even in late war zincers.
2. That pin doesn't match any known originals that I have see, and looks like the fat, misshapen type see on copies of EK1s as well.
3. The excess material on the reverse edges is a very bad sign of casting. Any German maker would have removed that much material if it were present on an original.
4. The line around the edge is not uniform, has big chunks missing; this is a sure sign of casting.

In addition, I believe I see pockmarks in parts of the cross, another sign of casting, and the material on the reverse is a dark gray and looks to be of a composition not like those of original zincers.
Dale

[Chet Sowersby]

Terry,
I whole heartedly recommend that you purchase Dietrichs excellent book "The War Merit Cross 1. Class"

Chet

[Casper]

Terry,
I think Casper nailed most of the details in his post. Even with your new photos, these points remain true.

1. The pebbling near the outer edge of these arms is just not there at all. In addition, the wreath and swastika lack the fine detailing one would expect, even in late war zincers.
2. That pin doesn't match any known originals that I have see, and looks like the fat, misshapen type see on copies of EK1s as well.
3. The excess material on the reverse edges is a very bad sign of casting. Any German maker would have removed that much material if it were present on an original.
4. The line around the edge is not uniform, has big chunks missing; this is a sure sign of casting.

In addition, I believe I see pockmarks in parts of the cross, another sign of casting, and the material on the reverse is a dark gray and looks to be of a composition not like those of original zincers.
Dale

100% agree with you. The additional photos just confirmed it.