ID the maker on this EK1?

[TP Alexander]

Can someone identify the maker on this unmarked EK1?
Thanx,
Tim

[Stu W]

Hi Tim,

It's a Souval with the fat swas, dipping three and die flaw on the 12 o'clock arm.

Regards,
Stu

[TP Alexander]

Thanx Stu.

[TP Alexander]

Another person identified this as a Souval with an Orth core.
I don't pretend to know or to contest his statement but in another PM, someone else said it would be a Souval core.
Would anyone care to comment?
Thanx,
Tim

[Stu W]

Based upon early teachings I believe the fat swas core with the Dipping 3 to be a Souval core whereas the skinny swas core is the Orth core. Perhaps more information has come to the collecting community over the years that puts things in a different light. If so I'm not aware of it and would benefit if others can clarify the issue.

Regards,
Stu

[Eklipse]

Tim, I agree with Stu, this fat swas and dipping three is considered as Souval core. The Orth core has slim swas and subnose three.
There was two types of Souval cores, this one is the very late or postwar type.
This pin is also very late or postwar type, with the scratch that Thomas Durante studied on postwar S&L and Souval production.
Sorry, Tim, you've got a polemical Souval.

[sanya13]

Hí Guys
As I know that this the Souval a ( good piece ) ,but possible I'm wrong
because already long time ago was it.
but was two type this the pieces ,all both on dipping 3 fat swastika ,but was a difference on the pin.

I showing
here are my piece ,this is a postwar type

[sanya13]

here is the difference ( IMO )

[TP Alexander]

Quite some time ago, I went through all of my EK's.
I wanted to check and see if they were OK or not.
I couldn't find the thread for this particular cross.
I thought that it was a Souval, but before I listed it on the Stand, I wanted to be sure.
That time, long ago, it was given approval, as a good wartime Souval, as I recall. If it hadn't been OK'd, it would have gone in the bin.
So, I asked for it to be checked a 2nd time here.
One person says that it is a post-war Souval.
I would like to hear any other opinions that are out there.
I wouldn't want to sell a repop as the real thing.
I'll try again to see if I can find that original thread also.
Thanx,
Tim

[Eklipse]

Tim, these crosses are controversial...the same Souval core used in postwar kwown examples, the same Souval frame used both in war and postwar pieces...and the same pin and catch used in postwar known crosses by Souval and by S&L...as Sanya show, the scratch in the pin (made with the bending tool of the pin maker) is a very distintive feature that is found "only" in postwar examples.
At the end of 2010 Thomas Durante wrote here in WAF a very interesting thread about this scratch, see "Difference between wartime & 1957 S&L badges".
Your cross is "possibly postwar", IMHO.

[boch_62]

here is the difference ( IMO )

Maybe you're right ... but I see here the same "crack" production, which could indicate that this is the same type of set-up ... I do not know ...

Regards
Jarek

[boch_62]

I personally have always treated as an early Souval's war-time core with a "deep three" and "thick swaz on a pedestal" ... (on a photos - sorry not my).

The core with "deep three" and "thick swaz (without pedestal)" for me (depending on set-up) is ...or war-time ...or post-war.
Of course this is so slippery and controversial topic that I could be wrong ...

Jarek

[sanya13]

I agree with Jarek
Here is my 100% wartime period Souval piece with brass core and the swas on pedestal