Is Grossmann produced crosses EK2 "Straight Arms" ?!

[Dansson]

The old question again : 'Is it the core that determins the maker or issuer of the cross ---- or is it the frame ? '
It is generally the frame -not the core .
The problem is that S&L supplied 31 + companies with frame dies and what is who's cross when not marked
The straight arm EK2 never made it to the PKZ marking . A good chance an early maker that was told to 'redoe' the design with more curvature to the beading and detailed corners ..... pulled the plug and suddenly stopped all together .... remaining dies and tooling sold off ??

Douglas

yup, S&L provided many makers with frame and core dies, some are identical to the S&L frames and cores. But some makers finnished their frame differently, for example Grossmann finnished their S&L based frames bit differently (not the only maker who finnished a bit diffrently the frame) and can be distiguished. However Grossman didn't use the S&L core but an own core, so the frame and core can be linked to Grossmann as they are the only frame and core type (at least by design used by Grossmann.).
However the hybrid here uses a Grossman frame and S.A. core, but not the S.A. frame.

I would not yet say that S.A. is a Grossmann produced cross, as you say, it is possible that S.A. pulled out the plug and sold the leftover stock.
But I belive it is highly possible that they COULD be the same maker, as this link between them has been found and the 11 used a similiar core deaign as the S.A..

Nothing is yet proven, but a big step towardd perhaps to ID the producer of the S.A. has been taken as Grossmann was one of the early makers listed by the PKZ 1939.

Best regards,
Daniel

[boch_62]

.................................

I would not yet say that S.A. is a Grossmann produced cross, as you say, it is possible that S.A. pulled out the plug and sold the leftover stock.
But I belive it is highly possible that they COULD be the same maker, as this link between them has been found and the 11 used a similiar core deaign as the S.A..

Nothing is yet proven, but a big step towardd perhaps to ID the producer of the S.A. has been taken as Grossmann was one of the early makers listed by the PKZ 1939.

Best regards,
Daniel

I think this is the crux of assumptions, which I wanted to suggest.

Grossmann was not a typical manufacturer uses the typical matrices "S&L Design".
His crosses EK2 were specific characteristics of the frame and core - that distinguished him.
Crosses "Straight Arms" were also unique and distinctive.
A certain similarity between the core of Grossmann's crosses and "SA" crosses is evident, but at the moment we received concrete evidence linking these crosses, and therefore also possible that the manufacturer ...

Regards
Jarek

[Dansson]

I think this is the crux of assumptions, which I wanted to suggest.

Grossmann was not a typical manufacturer uses the typical matrices "S&L Design".
His crosses EK2 were specific characteristics of the frame and core - that distinguished him.

The Grossmann frame is based on the S&L frame. That's something I proved in the thread comments I linked. thumsbup
But Grossmann finnished the frame differently and that indeed distinguished it (many other makers who used the S&L based frame finnished it differently and distinguishable)The reason why they changed to S&L based frames from their S.A. frame (if we now assume that Grossmann produced the S.A.) would be explain with the design/quality competition that was arranged.

Anyway, I belive there is now a base to determine the maker for the Straight Arm, but more evidence would be good. For example more of these S.A. cored Grossmanns, or even better a marked Grossmann with S.A. core.

Best regards,
Daniel

[boch_62]

The Grossmann frame is based on the S&L frame. That's something I proved in the thread comments I linked. thumsbup
But Grossmann finnished the frame differently and that indeed distinguished it (many other makers who used the S&L based frame finnished it differently and distinguishable)The reason why they changed to S&L based frames from their S.A. frame (if we now assume that Grossmann produced the S.A.) would be explain with the design/quality competition that was arranged.

That's more or less what I meant, but my English (unfortunately, not perfect) does not always tell what the head thinks

Anyway, I belive there is now a base to determine the maker for the Straight Arm, but more evidence would be good. For example more of these S.A. cored Grossmanns, or even better a marked Grossmann with S.A. core.

Best regards,
Daniel

While writing this post, I hope that someone will show such additional evidence ...

Regards
Jarek

[Dansson]

That's more or less what I meant, but my English (unfortunately, not perfect) does not always tell what the head thinks

No problem!

[fabri-online]

Interesting cross!
I see a straight arms core in a early Grossmann frame.
In my opinion the straight arms cross could be really the previous cross from Grossmann than the well known and typical unmarked 11.