Is Grossmann produced crosses EK2 "Straight Arms" ?!

[boch_62]

I bought a cross EK2 as "Straight Arms", but after the purchase, I look at the pictures and did not give me peace the frame of this cross ...
IMO it was not a frame „Straight Arms”, but the core was „Straight Arms”.
Everything was confirmed when I have cross in my hands.
The cross is fine - nice, original, undamaged, not corrected and not repaired !

It is with him only one problem - the frame does not fit into the core, according to our current knowledge on the crosses EK2-1939.
IMO it’s Grossmann’s (=11) frame and „Straight Arms” core !!!

Generally, some time ago I noticed the similarity date „1939” of the core Grossmann’s cross EK2 and „Straight Arms”, but to this day it did not matter.
Now, however, I see it a little bit in a different light.

Based on the analysis my new cross, I would venture to say that it is possible that the manufacturer of crosses „Straight Arms” was Grossmann (= 11) (perhaps „Straight Arms” were his prototype, early crosses).

What do you think about all this ?

Regards
Jarek

[boch_62]

my new cross ...

[boch_62]

core - comparison 1

[boch_62]

core - comparison 2

[boch_62]

core - comparison 3

[boch_62]

frame - comparison

[sanya13]

Hí Jarek
very interesting piece ,I like it and really very high the similar the two piece between
very good comparison

[Dansson]

Interesting find!

Perhaps Straight arm wasn't a prototype, but had to be changed because that orders came from a higher authoroty.

This would go well hand in hand with what I noticed how surprisingly many of the later cross variations have a frame based on the S&L dies as a result from the design competition. Which led to that S&L would provide new dies to the new makers which explains why most of the higher PKZ numbered manufacturers have S&L based/or pure S&L frames, and also why many (not all) lower PKZ numbered makers changed their dies to S&L based ones (e.g. Meybauer with their Schinkel frame to the "Third Reich" frame which is based on the S&L frame design, but finnihsed differently).

(If someone is interested to refresh the memory of this subject, check here.)




To the cross itself. A very interesting cross that certanly proves some connection between these variations, but also gives reason to belive they might be of the same maker.
Good find Jarek

[Douglas 5]

They are close - but all 3 cores are different .

Douglas

[Dansson]

They are close - but all 3 cores are different .

Douglas

I disagree.

The differences are so minor that they are non existent, you probably see how the two last crosses are displayed? that's right, the 2nd cross has a bit angleon the display compared to the lower one.
Even if there would be something like this, it's important to remember that when dies are activley used they gather heat of the use and heat might affecy sharpness of the metal product, and I would neither go and make new variations of cores that have differently worn dies.

The top cross is Grossman as mentioned, the last two both have the Straight Arm core IMO.

[Eryk]

They are close - but all 3 cores are different .

Douglas

If I understand the similarity is in the frame and not in the core ...

best regards
Maciej

[Dansson]

If I understand the similarity is in the frame and not in the core ...

best regards
Maciej

The cross in here that's so interesting is not the full Grossmann and neither the full Straight Arm, but the hybrid of them which has Grossmann frame and Straight arm core.

[boch_62]

The cross in here that's so interesting is not the full Grossmann and neither the full Straight Arm, but the hybrid of them which has Grossmann frame and Straight arm core.

Daniel, You understand fully what I meant.
This cross (stamped on pictures "?") has a Grossmann's frame and "Straight Arms" core, and it is not in doubt IMO

Jarek

[sanya13]

+1

daniel, you understand fully what i meant.
This cross (stamped on pictures "?") has a grossmann's frame and "straight arms" core, and it is not in doubt imo

jarek

[Douglas 5]

OK Daniel .... Grossmann frame on top , middle and bottom cross have - the same S.A. core .
Grossmann uses a S&L frame .
The old question again : 'Is it the core that determins the maker or issuer of the cross ---- or is it the frame ? '
It is generally the frame -not the core .
The problem is that S&L supplied 31 + companies with frame dies and what is who's cross when not marked
The straight arm EK2 never made it to the PKZ marking . A good chance an early maker that was told to 'redoe' the design with more curvature to the beading and detailed corners ..... pulled the plug and suddenly stopped all together .... remaining dies and tooling sold off ??

Douglas