W.D. Knight Cross.

[jules61]

Hi Gents!
I would like to know if Wilhelm Deumer Ludenscheid
Made The Knight Cross...?

If you look at these catalog........the answers is......Yes!

Thank you!
Gian.

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[jules61]

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[Ludwig]

Some collectors say – I am one of them! – that the so called 3/4-Öse Knight´s Cross was made by the Deumer company, and I guess that these catalogue pages increase this theory.
Many thanks for posting!

[Ludwig]

Neusilber frame and zink core:

[Leroy]

Deumer could certainly have made the 3/4 ring, as theorized. There are also period photos of Deumer employees assembling an RK which is clearly not a 3/4 ring and which more closely resembles a Zimmermann. (The RK in the Lüdenscheid archives, identified as coming from Deumer, is in fact an unmarked Zimmermann.) There are also examples of Schickle RK's mounted on Deumer stock cards (also with Deumer Oakleaves), further compounding the confusion. The Deumer "die storage" room still exists, as evidenced in photos of the brothers (grandchildren) of the wartime owners, who ran the business at least until the 1990's. Maybe the mysteries will be eventually
resolved by some enterprising German member here.

[Ludwig]

Deumer could certainly have made the 3/4 ring, as theorized. There are also period photos of Deumer employees assembling an RK which is clearly not a 3/4 ring and which more closely resembles a Zimmermann. (The RK in the Lüdenscheid archives, identified as coming from Deumer, is in fact an unmarked Zimmermann.) There are also examples of Schickle RK's mounted on Deumer stock cards (also with Deumer Oakleaves), further compounding the confusion. The Deumer "die storage" room still exists, as evidenced in photos of the brothers (grandchildren) of the wartime owners, who ran the business at least until the 1990's. Maybe the mysteries will be eventually
resolved by some enterprising German member here.

Where can I have a look at the photos you mention???

[Leroy]

PM sent.

P.S. I see there that you found it.

[Dietrich Maerz]

There was an interesting article in the International Medal Collector Vol. 3/No.3!
The conclusions drawn at a other place were not very thought out, premature, and did not take the whole picture into consideration. The possible connection between the 3/4 Ring and Deumer as a RK manufacturer were already made in a book about the topic in 2007 and to state that this was never mentioned just shows the lack of knowledge in the field.

[Leroy]

Yes, a very good (and plausible) article.

There still remain a number of unsolved "pieces" missing from the RK puzzle, including the disposition of Schickle material, the full relationship between the Conze family (involved in both Godet and Deumer) and Zimmermann. In other words, "who made what, when and for whom?".

[Ludwig]

PM sent.

P.S. I see there that you found it.

Again, many thanks! Haven´t been there for a while, but I´ll change that!

[chrisje110]

Can u guys share the pictures here of the Deumer dies "storage room"being talked about ?

[Ludwig]

It´s the photos in Dietrich´s post here.

[ChrisS5917]

Can u guys share the pictures here of the Deumer dies "storage room"being talked about ?

x2

[Dietrich Maerz]

Yes, a very good (and plausible) article.

Thank you!
It always is the better approach to look at the total sum of facts and see where they lead one. Instead of having only one obvious motive: to bad-mouth an author (as it is the case on the "other forum" and with Patzwall) and in order to do that putting flat out lies into statements. Completely unnecessary such a behaviour, and not very helpful for the hobby. But very revealing!

[Leroy]

x2

I have been looking for it, to no avail, this morning. It is a photo of the two brothers standing together with their backs to shelves obviously containing dies, and they are described as being in the die storage area of Deumer. It may be mentioned, or to be found, in some of the sources referenced in the several threads which have run in this area on multiple forums. I'll post if I can find it, or perhaps someone else will remember it and find it for posting.

I have always thought that the storage areas in the many Lüdenscheid companies involved with badge and decoration fabrication hold (or at least held at one time in the not-too-distant past) answers to many of the questions we have. Multiple prolific companies (S&L, Assmann, Deumer, GWL, FLL, etc., etc.), all close together in a town unravaged by war....a dream for collectors and researchers, but apparently the doors are closed.