SEM analysis- 3/4 ring RK

[tom hansen]

Hello guys-

I am going to look at two juncker RKs as well as a 3/4 ring RK on Jan 31st. When looking at the 3/4 ring, I want to use a control for another maker that may have actually made the 3/4 ring. I am looking for clues to the maker of the 3/4 ring RK. Possibilities that I have seen suggested were Godet, Juncker, Meybauer, and Wachtler and Lange. Gordon W had written that an early Godet attributed EK1 with a marked curvature of the arms, like the 3/4 ring, has been identified, suggesting that perhaps Godet made this cross early in the war. Perhaps due to the ugly appearance of this cross they were urged to seek another design. The question would be a standard for this. The Godet and Zimmerman EK1s are the same, so using a Godet EK1 may not be appropriate. Would a ww1 EK1 Godet be a better comparison? Also, in an earlier thread, Gordon W had felt as though juncker would be a "prime candidate". Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks!

[Dave Kane]

Tom, I'd go back in time and find the designer of the Grand Cross or Knight's Cross that closely matches the 3/4 ring.....it might be a good start as the apple never falls far from the tree!

[George Stimson]

Going back in time

Dave, when you go could you please pick up some reasonably priced RKs for your friends?

[tom hansen]

Well guys, Gordon says that 3/4 ring appeared in early notifications of the reinstitution of the iron cross with knights cross. So the government would have probably gone to a trusted maker from the previous war- godet/ juncker high on the list. The shape of the markedly curved arms looks more like a ww1 piece. I can test a juncker to compare, but would a ww2 godet EK1, which may have been "farmed out" to zimmerman, be an appropriate comparison, or would a world war 1 godet cross be a better comparison?

[tom hansen]

SO Any suggestions on an EK1 "control group" to help evaluate the 3/4 ring?


1. Godet EK1- would a world war 1 piece be better, given the possiblity that zimmerman made the Godet EK1s or vice versa during ww2?

2. Is wachtler and lange another possiblity and that should be the second EK1? The shape of the arms on this maker is more curved like a 3/4 ring and a ww1 EK1.


I have for three possible manufactureres- Godet, juncker, wachtler and lange-
Any other thoughts?

[Brian S]

What you need is a control group of EKII's and EKI's by any of the manufacturers of RKs such as Wachtler and Lange. WL, 100, is a common EKII and many EKI's are floating around here. I hope you pursue this.

[tom hansen]

What you need is a control group of EKII's and EKI's by any of the manufacturers of RKs such as Wachtler and Lange. WL, 100, is a common EKII and many EKI's are floating around here. I hope you pursue this.

Thanks Brian- I have a Wachtler and Lange EK2 that I got a few months ago. I just need some time to get scheduled for SEM. I will get around to it. I think it will be interesting.

[Brian S]

There should be literally hundreds of these around. It would be interesting to see the paint compounds of these over time how it changed, stayed the same. This is what we are missing in the entire analysis: The change, lack of change.

And we know WL made an RK. It seems at a single point we could identify the WL RK from the paint used on their RK to their EK, at a point in time.

[George Stimson]

Don't forget to check Deumer. Even if we're not sure they made the RK, they sure offered it in their catalog. (I wonder if that's an "artist's conception" of a 3/4 ring RK?)

[Dave-B]

Don't forget to check Deumer. Even if we're not sure they made the RK, they sure offered it in their catalog. (I wonder if that's an "artist's conception" of a 3/4 ring RK?)

Remember these photos I took at my local regimental museum?....an RK with Oakleaves on a Deumer shop display card!

[Dave-B]

The Deumer symbol on the card.