The Poetschke Iron Cross

[Tiger 1]

For what it's worth.

The engraving is mechanically indexed and spaced as would be correct for a pantagraph engraving. The font is typical of the type used with the pantagraph. Was the font without the runic SS correct during the war? I don't know but type writers used for wartime award documents had the runic SS font. Why not the same for the font used with pantagraphs?

The pin and 20 marking makes no sense at all IMO, field repaired or not. The inside edges on the beading that Peter refers to are sometimes found on later EKs made using the Gablonzer process.

Personally I don't doubt the sincerity of the story or the intergrity of the previous owners. But...... judging the piece alone, without the story andjust on it's own merits I remain skeptical as it seems to need too much explaining to justify it.

As Chris mentioned the award or the decoration is not really as important as the award document which shows the entitlement to pocess and wear a particular award.

Just some thoughts.

Tony

[InfanterieSammler]

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[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi John,

The question would then be... in which field was it done?

You would need to be Sturmbannführer Harry Potter to get that pin anytime before 1945.

All the best
Chris

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Well John, I know that you love your cross and that's great. It's not something I would buy for my collection, but they to each their own.

I hope you can learn to recognize that next time you're ripping apart something you don't like

[Sonderkommando]

Sorry to say this but the cross is a fake.

It is identical to the fake that Meriksson posted even down to the thin, brass "c" catch. This is not a wartime repair but simply a poor quality fake.
We all know what a "20" marked cross looks like, and that schinkels are unmarked. The pin is not a "field replacement" as it is the pin that belongs to a repro cross.
The frames do not have the quality of an original either.
It is a repro, and I would say that is why the family gave it away.
Judge the piece on it's own merit, not by the story or who has had it in their collections.

Brett

[Sonderkommando]

2

Notice how both the crosses have been engraved to add "authenticity" to them. Another downside to consider is...why has the repro Meriksson posted also had the same "field repair" with exactly the same brass "c" clasp? Did both these odd marked "20" crosses belong to 2 guys in the same unit and they were both repaired at the same time?
Anybody think this is possible?

[InfanterieSammler]

Brett,
When I posted a photo the cross a few years ago Gordon Williamson, stated that the cross was an original. I don't understand, so now he's wrong too? If this is a fake cross, why didn't George, Frank, Stephen just come out and say so in the beginning? This is not the same cross posted by Meriksson, and the 20 stamp on the pin is not the same if you cared to look carefully...This is not a Zimmerman cross, it never was. It is a Schinkle form cross, with a replaced pin. We can speculate all we want about the pin, original repair or postwar repair, etc. Thus far, no one including myself, has given a definitive answer regarding the repair...John

[Sonderkommando]

John,

I understand what you are saying and I hesitated before posting.....But I believe different to you and have put forward my thoughts on the cross.
Let's hope that I am wrong.

Regards,
Brett

[InfanterieSammler]

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[Sebastian Bianchi]

Brett,
When I posted a photo the cross a few years ago Gordon Williamson, stated that the cross was an original. I don't understand, so now he's wrong too? If this is a fake cross, why didn't George, Frank, Stephen just come out and say so in the beginning? This is not the same cross posted by Meriksson, and the 20 stamp on the pin is not the same if you cared to look carefully...This is not a Zimmerman cross, it never was. It is a Schinkle form cross, with a replaced pin. We can speculate all we want about the pin, original repair or postwar repair, etc. Thus far, no one including myself, has given a definitive answer regarding the repair...John

John, you know something, you're right. We're not being fair. You always encorage people to call a spade a spade and so here it is; In my opinion, the cross has too many liabilities for me to be comfortable. Again, in my opinion, it's fake.

The consensus amongst those I have spoken with is that this is a poor quality fake. More clear than that, I could not be.

But, then again, if you're happy with it that's all that really matters.

[Luftm40]

Something being missed here I think..Mikael posted links in post 39 to the same type of cross...complete w/ 20 mark and questionable engraving. Wouldn't this be an enormous coincidence?...both of these crosses being "field repaired" w/ the same pin and also engraved?

[InfanterieSammler]

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[Luftm40]

They appear identical to me (look at the side by side in post 65)...right down to the brass catch. I will say it: IMO your cross is a fake and so is the engraving. That is just my opinion though.

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Seba,
From the people that you've spoken to the cross it 'fake'. Why then haven't these people spoken up? I am not an expert with EK's, it's not my field so anything's possible, but everyone that has ever handled this cross deemed it original and Gordon said so years ago from the photo's I posted - So now who thinks it's fake? John

John, I also think you're mistaken on the maker marks. The angle of the photo makes it more difficult to tell but IMO the 20's are the same. Could be wrong, but that's how it looks. It would an iffy cross to start and the other one posted is just the death nail.

I can't say what Gordon based his opinion on, but he could be wrong too, yes. You are the first one to discount a story when it's presented to you (such as SS uniforms found in Russia) and I find rather intriguing and somewhat contradictory that you won’t even question the item here and buy the story lock stock & barrel. Bottom line, at the very best, that's a questionable piece.

I didn't count but in this threat it must be 4 or 5 people who have said it already. Others may or may not say it because obviously you like this cross and they either don't want to hurt your feelings or fight with you, or both.

[InfanterieSammler]

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