Deumer catalog RK

[Dietrich Maerz]

We cannot continue to discuss this since you take everything personal and you don't seem to read what I write. I never said nor would I ever say that you can't read - just as an example. But it seems that you did not read my Knights Cross book, otherwise you would know that already in 2007 the topic was discussed. Or the German Cross book, where it is also discussed. Or the book by Frank Thater, who also is of the opinion that Zimmermann supplied Godet. And so is Gordon Williamson. It is not necesssary to have read these books, but it would help in this discussion.

So, I kindly as you again to leave me out of this discussion. A comparison of me with Mr. N. I certainly do take as a very serious insult!

Dietrich

[Leroy]

Gentry,
There's really no proof that those swords planchets were supposed to be for the OLS to the 1939 RK, as discussed at length here.

I have finally had a chance to re-read the thread referenced by Trevor again, in its entirety, and I would highly recommend it to see the thought processes of the participants involved at that time.

(It's certainly a "nicer" thread than this one.)

[Thomas Durante]

We had enough insourmountable evidences in the past like ÜÜ is for sure Wernstein, Jena.

Sorry Andreas, but I cannot let this slide. It was Frank Heukemes; by all accounts the father of forensic analysis in our hobby; who first questioned the true identity behind the ÜÜ maker mark. It was precisely his holistic and forensic approach that began the questioning of the connection between this mark and Wernstein; undoing 40 years of old collector myth.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...0&highlight=uu

And this was a full 2 years before Basti's discovery

Tom

[Andreas Klein]

Indeed it was Frank who was questioning this as first one which was waterproof re-written by several authors for years but the "forensic" didn't gave him the final solution or have you forgotten the idea of the "Arbeitsgemeinschaft Vienna" based on a story:

-recently, a befriended German author contacted the son of a Vienna based maker of Third Reich badges. Kind of a private person and it is not really important to know which maker it was, so let´s just say one of the known ones and the last name does NOT start with a "W" . Presented the "W in circle with five dots on W" mark, he remembered playing with the stamp for this mark as a boy in his father´s workshop. He further remembered, that the Vienna based makers were organized in an "Arbeitsgemeinschaft", meeting in Vienna Kneipe at a Stammtisch, a reserved table for regulars. The boy often joined his father in these meetings. He was not really sure upon recollecting the following, but when asked "what does the W stand for?", he suggested it was "W" for Wien and the five dots could have represented the member companies of that union.

It was Basti sticking his nose in the boring papers who solved the problem of ÜÜ but both - the credit to Frank and the credit to Bastian - needs no discussion.

Anyway i enjoy the jumping around:

When we talk about 65 marked crosses in early knight cross groupings the former Hamburg based dealer is not thrustworthy but when he sells some garbage as "this is from the former Zimmermann factory" than he is the holy grail of forensic and father of the unquestionable "Zimmermann supported Godet" evidence.

So it seems the new key is:

Don't trust in historic facts - trust the story if it tells you what you wan't to see.

[Andreas Klein]

We cannot continue to discuss this since you take everything personal and you don't seem to read what I write. I never said nor would I ever say that you can't read - just as an example. But it seems that you did not read my Knights Cross book, otherwise you would know that already in 2007 the topic was discussed. Or the German Cross book, where it is also discussed. Or the book by Frank Thater, who also is of the opinion that Zimmermann supplied Godet. And so is Gordon Williamson. It is not necesssary to have read these books, but it would help in this discussion.

Dear Dietrich,

some last words: i don't take such things personal if we talk via phone, mail or from face to face but i take it personal if such things are written in public with thousands of readers not knowing what kind of connection we have.

I have all mentioned books, supported at least two of them with photos and input from me and therefore have read all of them. They are all worth every penny which i paid for them but none of the books is the holy bible which isn't allowed to be dicussed if new documents are discovered or old docs lead us to a new discussion/point of view.