Originally posted by tom hansen
this is a "rumor", as you can see with the attached picture. Please also refer to the pictures in Gordon's book page 336 and 337...
Dietrich
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Tom,
this is a "rumor", as you can see with the attached picture. Please also refer to the pictures in Gordon's book page 336 and 337...
DietrichLast edited by Dietrich; 12-14-2004, 07:02 PM. -
Hord
Gentlemen,
Dave---I have no knowledge of S/L pieces being discovered in the Schloss hord. I have personnally inspected at least 12 Schloss RKs and they were all marked Junker.
I am not trying to imply that only Junker marked pieces are original. The point I would make is that let's not make assumptions about K&Q or S/L PRODUCTION without some facts to verify that they were indeed the primary manufacturer at the end of the war. The facts regarding the Schloss hord require greater examination and do bring into question certain theories expressed previously. Also, the Schloss pieces mark a very good 'azimuth' for further research since we can verify directly what was discovered and what type appeared.
Shortly before the Russians sealed-off Berlin, the Director of the ReichsKanzlei directed that all decorations on-hand would be loaded-up and transposrted to Schloss Klessheim in Austria for safe-keeping. Schloss Klessheim had already been used by Hitler to entertain and receive foreign dignitaries during the war.
To make a long story short, the U.S. 3rd Division eventually, 'liberated' the castle and discovered a massive amount of Third Reich decorations (I was told it was at least six truck loads).
Fast forward 50 years and some very smart and resourceful collectors purchased vast quantities of Eagle Orders, RKs, O/L, O/L/S, O/L/S/D, HUGE amounts of cased German Crosses in Gold and Silver some with diamonds (Gold only) , Hitler wound badges, etc.---the story is fascinating!
MIKEComment
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Michael of the Juncker examples mentioned...were these in European collections?Regards,
DaveComment
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Just a quick questions:
Are we discussing the Maybauer Company or The Klessheim Hort or Klein & Quenzer right now? Just need some direction, please help!
DietrichComment
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Subject
Dietrich,Originally posted by Dietrich
ALL OF THE ABOVE!
Dave,
The mojority of the Klessheim pieces ended-up in US collections. This story can be verified by at least four dealers at the MAX show. I have personnally seen pictures of dealers making various purchases. As I stated before, this is not an 'unverified' die-strike story but, an important part of our collecting history. Quite frankly, I am rather surprised that all these 'experts' have not heard of Klessheim and the discovery of these medals.
MIKEComment
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Mike I think that anyone who has chased these things for any number of years has heard the story.....I am curious not about the 'story' but about your observation of just the Juncker marked crosses...
It seems very narrow in context yet could make some sense in that Awards were presented EARLY ON in these official surroundings but slowed considerably as the war went on......why not just early and mid war crosses and those local to Berlin!!
It has been widely asserted that even greatly flawed S&L RK's came from the horde at the Castle so my interest was piqued....
Just as a comparrison....I wonder why we don't 'hear' about the GI's bringing home dozens of cased K&Q crosses from the supply train (horde)!!!Regards,
DaveComment
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Mike,Originally posted by Michael Everett
the Klessheim hort was discussed in this forum several times and a lot of pictures have been posted already. Do a search. It is nothing new. There is also a very good book about "plundering" after the war and one small part of the book also touches base on Klessheim. Maybe you have that book. I will see what is says in there and post accordingly.
What was new - to me at least - was the notion that only medals which have been found in that hort are the official ones. I at least deducted from your statement that K&Q and S&L and others could not have been a late war supplier because only Juncker was found in Klessheim (same applies for the DK's, i.e. not Klein 134 and so on). This is absolutely news to me and in that respect you might call me a 'expert'.
I'm sorry, but I just didn't get the connection to Maybauer and K&Q and I still don't. Excuse my ignorance.
DietrichComment
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This is all the book says. Maybe that's all there is maybe there were truck loads full of oaks and RK's. This author does not know about this and seems to be - regarding his curiculum vitae - an authority on that subject.
The book is "Nazi Plunder - Great Treasure Stories of World War II", Kenneth D. Alford, Da Capo Press, CC 2000"
DietrichComment
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Rather anticlimactic to say the least!!!! But as with a lot of things in this hobby a great base for a story!
I wonder what happened to the knife and fork
Regards,
DaveComment
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