Unmarked RK... opinions nedded!!

[Viriathus]

Hello everybody!


This RK belongs to a good friend collector, he bought it several years ago, said to have been brought from Germany just after the war... In the opinion of a retired dealer in German Militaria it is a Sedlatzek cross, because of certain details such as the swastika and the "1939" date, unmarked silver frame, etc.

However it does not have the dipping suspension ring as seen in most of the Sedlatzek crosses...

Could it eventually be a variant of the traditional Sedlatzek RK?

My friend and I, we would be happy to know the expert opinions of the Forum on this particular cross. Many thanks in advance!

All the best!


Jose

[tystgaard]

Hi

Hi

To me it do not look like a WW2 period cross. Possible a late variant of a postwar S&L type cross??? but made long after the war- 1970s maybe

BR
Nicolai

[kraut72]

Hi

early postwar Souval, with neusilber frame

[Alex W.]

Certainly not a post war Souval RK. Souval's post war RKs are easy to spot. (Hanging "3", dipping ring and low swastika).
I also don't see a so called "Sedlatzek" RK here. The frame beading looks very poor and the ring is not dipping into the frame like it should.

Best regards,
Alex

This is what a proper Sedlatzek RK looks like:

[Alex W.]

2

[Luis22]

That cross is in really poor shape possible ground dug????

[Leroy]

Core is same as "Sedlatzek" (misnomer) and, to me, it looks like the frame is the same, too, but the borders of the frame have been cut more narrowly by the trimming die. Perhaps someone can do a side by side of just the upper frames and rings.

I believe that the consensus is starting to be , after "connecting the dots", that Souval made an early wartime RK, but never received a government contract. Its very first crosses sold after the war were leftovers of these crosses (or possibly pieces assembled from parts) before they switched, fairly quickly, to the low profile swastika and "dipping 3" core we are all familiar with.

[Alex W.]

Core is same as "Sedlatzek" (misnomer) and, to me, it looks like the frame is the same, too, but the borders of the frame have been cut more narrowly by the trimming die. Perhaps someone can do a side by side of just the upper frames and rings.

I believe that the consensus is starting to be , after "connecting the dots", that Souval made an early wartime RK, but never received a government contract. Its very first crosses sold after the war were leftovers of these crosses (or possibly pieces assembled from parts) before they switched, fairly quickly, to the low profile swastika and "dipping 3" core we are all familiar with.

I totally agree with this theory. IMO the so called "Sedlatzek" crosses are early wartime Souval made RK's. Souval never received the contact though.
This also matches from what I've been told from "oldtimers" that knew and talked to Mr. Sedlatzek in the post war years. Sedlatzek never made RKs.

[streptile]

That's also consistent with everything we know about Sedlatzek from Imperial collecting. He really didn't make any EKs either, but he bought a lot of them from multiple other companies and marked them with his stamp for resale.

[kraut72]

for Alex W

again

early-possible period typ?

postwar-made intervalum from storage parts but /not pre May 45

Souval-maker

neusilber-frame material

so clear?

[Viriathus]

Thank you all for the comments on this RK!


Here there are another 2 photos for comparision, at the left my friend's cross, at the right is my Sedlatzek cross...

There are some obvious similarities between both frames that seem to have been struck by the same die as suggested by Leroy:

"Core is same as "Sedlatzek" (misnomer) and, to me, it looks like the frame is the same, too, but the borders of the frame have been cut more narrowly by the trimming die. Perhaps someone can do a side by side of just the upper frames and rings"

The swastika is exactly the same in both the crosses, the date style also, except for the second "9". The main difference lies to the suspension ring!

Any other opinions are welcome!

Again many thanks and all the best,


Jose

[mwl]

I believe that the consensus is starting to be , after "connecting the dots", that Souval made an early wartime RK, but never received a government contract. Its very first crosses sold after the war were leftovers of these crosses (or possibly pieces assembled from parts) before they switched, fairly quickly, to the low profile swastika and "dipping 3" core we are all familiar with.

NO RK with known recipients (or bought second cross), strongly gives me the feeling that NO Souval pre May 1945. ....

[Leroy]

So what is your theory regarding the "Sedlatzek" crosses (and the various photos)?

It's all just an interesting discussion by people who weren't there....

[mwl]

I just fear that "early post war" items are transferred to be considered as "pre May -45" in order to increase value/price... An open mind though is of course necessary, as in all research