Knight Cross for review.

[streptile]

Hi Gentry,

Here are some pics of the "older Juncker fake" (also known with a 1957 core as seen in Dietrich's book):

[Leroy]

Trev - For some reason, your last photos are not appearing on my screen.

Here's the older one I was thinking about (which is also the same as the 1957 version in Dietrich's book with O/S/D). The ring, which sits higher, appears closer to the "Grieser" one than does the ring on the "new Juncker fake". This older fake was first mentioned in Gordon Williamson's book.

P.S. Sepp45 was kind enough to send the pages of the article the "Grieser" piece came from and it was copyright 2003, so it was too old I think to be the "new Juncker fake".

[streptile]

Trev - For some reason, your last photos are not appearing on my screen.

Here's the older one I was thinking about (which is also the same as the 1957 version in Dietrich's book with O/S/D). The ring, which sits higher, appears closer to the "Grieser" one than does the ring on the "new Juncker fake". This older fake was first mentioned in Gordon Williamson's book.

P.S. Sepp45 was kind enough to send the pages of the article the "Grieser" piece came from and it was copyright 2003, so it was too old I think to be the "new Juncker fake".

Gentry,

We are talking at cross purposes. I agree 100% that the so-called "Greiser" cross has the same frame as the one with the 57 core and OLSD in Dietrich's book, and also the same as the one I just posted photos of (which can be seen here, posts 10 and 11). Let's call it the "old Juncker fake frame." I have no doubt these are all the same frame.

However, the cross posted here by Jules 61 is not of this type, but is the "new Juncker fake." The shape of the two frames is very different, with the "old Juncker fake" having the shape of the Zimmermann RK, and the "new Juncker fake" having the shape of an actual Juncker RK. I hope that is clear now...

Here are more photos of the "new Juncker fake":

[Leroy]

OK - I see now! Your post in Post 11 of the "Grieser" piece threw me off the one which started this thread.

The "new Juncker" is extremely dangerous and represents a level of intended deception far more sophisticated than what came before, IMO. I'm glad I spotted it so I could warn people in that original thread.

[Leroy]

Just to compare.

[Leroy]

Note that the "old" fake had cross hatching in the outside corners, too, and not just on the inside corners next to the swastika. Many times, this area is buffed out to obscure detail.

[streptile]

Note that the "old" fake had cross hatching in the outside corners, too, and not just on the inside corners next to the swastika. Many times, this area is buffed out to obscure detail.

Yes, that's one of the major differences. The "old fake" has cross-hatched outer corners, and the "new fake" gets the shape correct (as you can see in your side-by-side above) but only one frame gets the cross-hatched outer corners and the shape correct: an authentic Juncker RK.

[Leroy]

.... the cross posted here by Jules 61 is not of this type, but is the "new Juncker fake."

To clarify one final time, the above statement by Trevor is 100% correct. My earlier statement that the one posted by Jules 61 was the same type used for the "Grieser" piece was incorrect. Although there is a "connecting link" between the two types (the attempt to replicate Juncker cross-hatching), the one which started this thread is the newer, much more dangerous, effort. Still wrong and still detectable...but much, much closer than the "old" type.