Vaulted Deumer.

[Maciej G]

Hi.

I wanted to start a discussion on the vaulted EK I Deumera (especially signed L/11). I often talk about this with Michael and we have different opinions.
We know that the institutions LDO, PKZ had its own rules and standards of - the cross was to be flat!
How is it that we see so many crosses vaulted Deumer!?
They did it at the factory? Were formed by the users!

Welcome to the discussion. Any opinion will be appreciated.

Best regards.

Maciej G.

[Robert P.]

I have a factory-vaulted TR-manufactured Imperial-cored 'L/11'-stamped Deumer...

Robert

[Tony T-S]

The vaulting is perfect on that one Robert, the beading shows no sign of "sticking up" so often seen on "field" vaulted examples. On another note, I wonder what the reason behind the no vaulting rule was?

[Maciej G]

Thank you for your response.

Robert very interesting example!
I have a similar vaulted EK and 1914 ( picture ) but the period after the war.
I think mainly it is very much a L/11 such as in this thread ...
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=L%2F11

Tomorrow I'll make pictures of your other examples!

Best regards.

Maciej G.

[Robert P.]

Thank you for your response.

Robert very interesting example!
I have a similar vaulted EK and 1914 ( picture ) but the period after the war.
I think mainly it is very much a L/11 such as in this thread ...
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=L%2F11

Tomorrow I'll make pictures of your other examples!

Best regards.

Maciej G.

Maciej,

You are saying my cross is postwar-produced? I've always assumed these Imperial crosses were period (TR)-produced, but I have no real proof they were/are. I just assumed they were replacement crosses for those WWI vets who had lost or damaged their 1914 crosses, and needed a cross for wear during the second world war. Yours above certainly shows wear like it had been through a war.

Robert

[Tony T-S]

Surely post WWI, but not WWII

[Maciej G]

Maciej,

You are saying my cross is postwar-produced? I've always assumed these Imperial crosses were period (TR)-produced, but I have no real proof they were/are. I just assumed they were replacement crosses for those WWI vets who had lost or damaged their 1914 crosses, and needed a cross for wear during the second world war. Yours above certainly shows wear like it had been through a war.

Robert

Yes Robert. L/11 from the period after the war has characteristic lines on the signature box. A line goes to the left.
It was analyzed in the section "57".
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=680800
Here more pictures my EK I 1914 L/11
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=641777&page=2

Let's go back to the first question.
I'm more interested in whether it is possible that as many crosses Deumera was bent by hand, outside the factory!?

Best regards.

Maciej G.

[streptile]

In my opinion any LDO marked EK1 with a 1939 core left the factory flat.
Any LDO marked EK1 with a 1914 core could have left vaulted or flat.
Any LDO EK1 with a 1939 core that is vaulted, was vaulted by hand.
Any PKZ marked EK1 with a 1939 core that is vaulted, was vaulted by hand.
Any unmarked EK1 that is vaulted could be factory- or hand-vaulted and must be considered on a case by case basis.

[Robert P.]

In my opinion any LDO marked EK1 with a 1939 core left the factory flat.
Any LDO marked EK1 with a 1914 core could have left vaulted or flat.
Any LDO EK1 with a 1939 core that is vaulted, was vaulted by hand.
Any PKZ marked EK1 with a 1939 core that is vaulted, was vaulted by hand.
Any unmarked EK1 that is vaulted could be factory- or hand-vaulted and must be considered on a case by case basis.

This must have taken much research to come to these conclusions, but so be it.

Robert

[streptile]

This must have taken much research to come to these conclusions, but so be it. Robert

Hi Robert,

It took a lot of looking, yes. In fact I wrote out those observations in a slightly too-complicated way. I could simplify it:

• PKZ- and LDO-marked 1939 EK1s were all made flat.
• LDO-marked 1914 EK1s were sometimes made vaulted, sometimes flat.
• Unmarked EK1s of any type were sometimes made vaulted, sometimes flat.

[Tony T-S]

Well there you are. Really interesting.

[Robert P.]

Well there you are. Really interesting.

Yes, very interesting, very complete.

Thank you Trevor,

Robert

[Maciej G]

Hi. Good entry Trevor.
I was hoping that you will bring to the discussion their observations and knowledge.

For me, it is surprisingly a lot of bending crosses L/11 1939!
You don't see many examples from other producers !?

Best regards.

Maciej G.

[Robert P.]

Maciej,

Here's a shot of the stamp on my cross...

Robert

[Maciej G]

Hi Robert. Typical TR era !!
Again, sorry for the confusion.

Best regards.

Maciej G.