Sale @ E-Stand! 160 Euro for a Suspect EK1 L15! And the L/55 !!!

[5tefan]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=685345&page=2

0127: EK1 1939, Friedrch Orth, Souval frame, price: 160€
0159: EK1 1939 mmed L/55, unusual type, price: 165€

Maybe I can not hide, that after some conversation, I already built my picture of StefanK.

And I'm only waiting for such E-Stand offer like this.

I only can recommend, better not to buying the upper listed EK1!

For me both EK1 are suspect! But maybe it is only my opinion.

But I like to know your opinion, to avoid that some collectors are disapointed if they buy one of the two EK1!

Call me a bad loser, if I'm not right!

[reichenberg]

They all look wrong to me except perhaps the second one L/19?

[Hank C.]

They look okay to me....but more opinions are highly encouraged. I think part of the challenge here are these are not "run of the mill" EK's.

best
Hank

[StefanK.]

Thanks for your opinion, feel free to discuss any of my EKs. I know that you obviously have a problem with me dear Stefan but there are a lot of others who bought from me and who were very content with my pieces which come directly from my personal EK collection which i believe to be of a quite advanced level.

To comment the Eks you are referring to:

0127 is a textbook EK1 by Souval with an "Orth" marking. I know that some people aren't very impressed by this type but i dont see any reason not to believe that they are original.

0157 was bought by me on the Estand a few years ago. The cross is assembled from 100% original parts and the overall condition indicates every feature that one would expect from an original EK. The marking itself is odd indeed, because it is not a cross made by W&L. I havent seen such a piece before and i believe that it is an interesting piece for someone who is looking for something special.

Anyway, postig these things for sale i have agreed on the estand rules which offer a turnback if the buyer doesnt like the piece.

thanks for starting this thread,

Stefan

[5tefan]

Thanks for your opinion, feel free to discuss any of my EKs. I know that you obviously have a problem with me dear Stefan but there are a lot of others who bought from me and who were very content with my pieces which come directly from my personal EK collection which i believe to be of a quite advanced level.

To comment the Eks you are referring to:

0127 is a textbook EK1 by Souval with an "Orth" marking. I know that some people aren't very impressed by this type but i dont see any reason not to believe that they are original.

0159 was bought by me on the Estand a few years ago. The cross is assembled from 100% original parts and the overall condition indicates every feature that one would expect from an original EK. The marking itself is odd indeed, because it is not a cross made by W&L. I havent seen such a piece before and i believe that it is an interesting piece for someone who is looking for something special.

Anyway, postig these things for sale i have agreed on the estand rules which offer a turnback if the buyer doesnt like the piece.

thanks for starting this thread,

Stefan

L15 EK1 has not many fans! Special Dietrich Maerz is more for a postwar build Floch EK1! Hope the Moderator of this Sector will give a Statement to this L15!

Sorry, but an Orth [15] marked L/55 make no sense! They were no relationship between Orth & W&L. For me it looks like someone try to increase the price by re-marking the EK1! And if you compare it to the other W&L maker mark from EK1 the original does not use this kind of maker mark for EK1!

[ben bijker]

Sorry, but an Orth [15] marked L/55 make no sense! They were no relationship between Orth & W&L. For me it looks like someone try to increase the price by re-marking the EK1! And if you compare it to the other W&L maker mark from EK1 the original does not use this kind of maker mark for EK1!

Stefan, although it is a weird combination I wouldn't rule it out right away.
Just think about the Mayer ek with the non-Godet L/50 mark.....

[Dietrich Maerz]

L15 EK1 has not many fans! Special Dietrich Maerz is more for a postwar build Floch EK1! Hope the Moderator of this Sector will give a Statement to this L15!

Nobody here nor anywhere else was in the room when and where this cross was assembled. I had several discussions with the Austrian gentleman who sold these over the years (and he did NOT make them). Based on this, I personally consider them to be postwar assembled from parts made during the war, but that is an opinion and is as good as any other opinion (or at least any other opinion which has at least some argumentation behind it, not just "Fake" or "Good"). That case is laid out in detail in the book "The Iron Cross 1. Class" by George Stimson/Dietrich Maerz and was adopted in essence by another author. Nothing new has transpired since our book of 2010.

All I can say is this: the person who buys this cross should at least know about the "story" and controversy surrounding this type and in all fairness - since I know that Stef knows about this controversy - it should be mentioned in a sales thread.

Everything else lies in the future.

Dietrich

[maurice2396]

I can't comment on the ek1 in question as I'm no expert. But I will say I have bought quite a few ek1 from Stefank that were very nice originals and he was a pleasure to do business with
just my opinion

[5tefan]

Stefan, although it is a weird combination I wouldn't rule it out right away.
Just think about the Mayer ek with the non-Godet L/50 mark.....

Hi Ben,

Godet did not produced the common 1939 EK1 Variants!
And therefore it is plausible that Godet ordered EK1 from BHM or Zimmermann for LDO Sale! To offer a complete set without any gaps until Knight Cross with Oak Leaf + OL w/swords! Additional there are more than one variant and condition occured! Mint, normal & backplate marked! Never possible to re-marke an EK1 on the center of a backplate without a ding!

http://www.ek1-dna.de/l-50-gebr.-god...---pinback.php

But W&L "L/55" has no problems to build those EK's by them self, include supporting Juncker with their production!!!

It makes no sense! And I think the one who bought this cross needs very good arguments to sell this EK1 as AUTHENTIC EK1 and not as re-marked EK1!

If this EK1 is authentic and very rare in occurance, why did Stef such price building? It should be mentioned in a sales thread, in my opinion!

I can not hide my feeling that Stef know much more about this EK1 like he know about the L15 Variant!

Additional why such rare EK1 is double marked ?
Hope you saw that someone try to mark it under the catch as well!!!

I see that most of the collectors are relaxed and ignore my doubts!

I thought it would be good to give a little help to all novice.
But it seems that some well known collectors/experts ingnor my warnings too!

I think in that case, I can only help my self

Would be interesting if someone could show us a double marked EK1 from a known maker, with two times the same mark on the pin and under the catch!

Never ever seen it before! I'm not an EK1 God, but a gentle voice told me "Lord, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. "

For me it is simple result from a person who try to re-marke EK1!
Nothing more or less! TAKE CARE

[Douglas 5]

So 5tefan Godet did not make these ? --- Who did ?

Douglas

[Dietrich Maerz]

Never ever seen it before! I'm not an EK1 God, but a gentle voice told me "Lord, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. "

For me it is simple result from a person who try to re-marke EK1!
Nothing more or less! TAKE CARE

I am sure that all readers here have received your 'warning" coming from a supernatural gentle voice and it is good that we all can count on your forgiveness.

However, there is no proof at all that this double marking was not done pre-May 1945 nor is there any proof that it was done after May 1945. The "never seen before"-argument is really not a good one, since it implies that you have seen EVERYTHING so far and whatever you have not seen so far cannot be good. I could show you at least 100 items you have never seen before....

It is a good thing to discuss such anomalities as these marking! It is good to give a warning from your point of view to any potential buyer, but it is not good to basically decare everybody else who is not agreeing with you (or anybody who has no opinion about this item at all - that is also a possibility....) as someone who needs to blessing from the Lord because of his perceived ignorance and stupidity.

It is, just as Stef says, a piece made with original parts and strangely marked. Nobody needs to buy it!

Dietrich

[5tefan]

Dietrich

You seen 100 more EK1 Variants, which is unknown to me? Than you are my man
... a gentle voice told me ..., it is not my voice
Maybe my english is not good enought that you could follow all of my arguments.

[Dietrich Maerz]

You seen 100 more EK1 Variants, which is unknown to me? Than you are my man

See, that is the general problem nowadays! People can't read anymore and they "read" what ever they want to read!

Where did I say that I have seen 100 EK1 variations you have not seen? Here is my wording again for you: " I could show you at least 100 items you have never seen before...."
That might include, but not exclusevly, some EK variations, but also a skunk in my garden and a lot of other things you have never seen and will most likely never see, including WW2 items. And they are all "good".

It is, however, significant that you think that somebody dares to challenge your knowledge about EK1s.

Dietrich

PS: Please answer to Douglas if you could, to keep the discussion on topic.

[5tefan]

...

PS: Please answer to Douglas if you could, to keep the discussion on topic.

D5 should start a new thread and make better pictures of the obverse!
Maybe I have a good answer But this thread it is not the right place/thread for discussion!

[StefanK.]

... a gentle voice told me ..., it is not my voice

Is it the same strange voice in your head that talks to you all day long, Stefan? Dont take it too serious