My first DKis 20

[all1knew]

Hello there,

A dotted fake?



William Kramer

[lordpage]

Sorry to read of your troubles,really hope you can work it out.

[steiner68]

Good luck

£2000 is important, I hope that you can be refund

[HouweTrouwe]

Journey of the DKiS ... http://www.historicalwarmilitariafor...ke/#entry25553

[Dietrich Maerz]

Even running the danger of being outed and chastised: this German Cross in Silver (dotted) is a genuine example, made by C.F. Zimmermann.

I am sure that everybody here understands that I don't give a flying rat whether the cross is good or bad - all I am interested in is what I see and what I can conclude based on my knowledge and reserach.

I was contacted and I have the cross here on my desk. I wrote a positive expertise for it. Here is why:

- the cross has the typical 11 o'clock flaw of every genuine Zimmermann
- the rivets are all genuine, one has traces of damage. But they were never opened
- the parts are all correct (pin, catch, catch plate, starburst plate, swastika)
- the "20" stamp is absolute genuine and complete (not cut-off)
- the wreath is made of Tombak and is silvered (not painted with silver paint)
- the "dotted" date corresponds to all the other "dotted" dates I have on file
- the medaillion plate is magnetic
- the swastika is genuine Zimmermann
- the weight is correct
- the backplate is made of the typical Cupal used by Ziimmermann

I know that there are discussions whether the "dotted" variation of Zimmermann is a genuine product made before May 1945 and everybody can think and believe whatever he wants. There should be only one condition: include all known facts. And if one includes all the known facts and also incorporates the microscopic traces visible under personal investigation, one should come to the same conclusion I came: this is a genuine Zimmermann product with all parts from Zimmermann. The only different part is the wreath with the dotted date. But that wreath was originally attached to the cross and is not replaced.

To say: "I don't like it" ist not a determination factor for good or bad, and it never was.

I think that Pete got a rare and original "dotted" German Cross in Silver.

Dietrich

PS: Just as another thought: IF this is a fake, why did a faker get everything right, down to the correct material, stamp, weight, and dies traces, but then used a "dotted" wreath? How crazy is that? Not to speak of the perfect patina under the microscope.

[Volksgrenadier 44]

Well that is good news for the man i must say

Ross

[lordpage]

That is good news.

Jon

[Dietrich Maerz]

There seems to be some discussion in other fora regarding the findings and any possible "secrets" that might be behind them.

There are none! It is plain and simple a typical "dotted" German Cross in Silver, just as it has been discussed several times here in this very forum, and also can be seen in exquisit detail in my book (pages 204-211) and in an additional article in the International Medal Collector, Vol. 1, No.4.

The only problem might have been that the pictures posted here and on other sites did not show the 11 o'clock flaw and the correct stamp. The main problem, however, was IMHO that people jumped to conclusions based on an incomplete set of information and based on pictures only. That was just not possible here.

There is no secret information in my expertise, that is not my style.

Dietrich

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

The cross looks good to me as well. Despite the bad pictures or bad lighting, you can see many good traits on it that the fakers have yet to pick up on in my opinion. I will say that it looks like its been polished or maybe cleaned, giving it a somewhat soft or sparkly look to it in these photos, which at first threw me off as well.

Regarding whether the "Dotted" DKs are wartime or not, I can only recomment Dietrich's IMC magazine, Volume 1, #4.

Tom

[lordpage]

I really felt for you on this Ironfist and kept checking back,£2000 is a lot to lose.Certainly did the right thing going to Dietrich Maerz ,I have enjoy his writing on German Crosses and it's worked out even better now you have it confirmed original and a very rare award as well.Now you can sit back and enjoy.
Good hunting in the future.

Regards Jon