Stalingrad Iron Crosses

[coastie]

I'm sure most of you have seen an Ebayer from Russia selling EK's and such from Stalingrad, are we to believe him? Also did Germans carry their EK2/KVK2's into combat with them? Personally I don't think so.

[Jim Baker]

Coastie,

I've seen that stuff. He also claims the money raised goes to some kids group that ID's fallen soldiers (or some such nonsense). That's pretty original. But I have issues with his pieces. Take one of your EK's and throw it in the backyard for 45 or 60 years, or in a dank corner of your basement. How do you think it will look when you go back to get it?? A bunch of crap I suspect, but again, very original.

[Brian Dentino]

Coastie, I am sorry to disagree on the Germans taking awards into combat. In fact, many many many German awards are in collections right now because a Heer, Luft, SS, or whatever was made a prisoner and searched by British, US, or other captors. True that is badges mostly, but I am sure that many a prisoner was found to be carrying their EK2, KVK, or whatever in their pocket or ruck. Believe me, I got my first items from a vet who was an MP in WWII. He told me they searched/took anything and everything they could find that could have conceivably been used as a weapon (or made a nice souvenir) . Anyway, I am no expert, but this is my 2 cents worth anyway.

Brian

[phaleranumismatics]

There is a large group called "Poisk" and many similar small ones in Russia. They've originated many years ago and they really do a great job of finding and identifying remains of the fallen soldiers. Those kids were the only ones in the former Soviet Union officially authorized to do battlefield diggings. Because of their work some of the most interesting stories of W.W.II became proven history instead of being just a legend. They are the ones who found the remains of the Lilia Litviak "The White Rose of Stalingrad " laying under the wing of her shot down plane. Because of them the most prominent women fighter pilot in the world was finally awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. 45 years later.
Because of those kids the legend about Soviet fighter pilot (sorry can't remember his name) who was shot down over Odessa by six German aces and then given an official funeral with the military salute by the Luftwaffe squadron when they saw that he had two Hero stars pinned on his uniform is now a proven history.

I can't comment on the condition of medals he is selling because if a steel arrow from the times of the Golden Hoard can still be found in very decent shape so can the Iron Cross but there is one thing I know for sure . The legitimate search groups will never sell dog tags. Everything else but dog tags. The dog tags found by those groups are always returned to the German consulates.

[George Stimson]

I agree with Brian. I think a lot of German soldiers carried their EK 2s in their uniform pockets. (That would be one explanation for the wear on a lot of them.)

[coastie]

Thanks for all the good comments! I will admit I bought an EKII a few years ago on ebay that had a very convinciing pouch (I'll take a picture and post as soon as my server gets their act together again).

I thought I would throw the argument in about carrying medals because I have not heard much about the Germans doing so.

I know enough about aging iron and steel to know that the rust can be added on especially soft iron, The silver on the other hand could stay in nice shape depending upon soil conditions. It sounded to good a story and the "sales pitch" with the history of Stalingrad a bit much to add to the description just to add to the significance of the item.

I did read about the women pilot that was shot down and found much later. Didn't know that she was found in such a manner.

[Jim Baker]

Let me clarify, I'm not saying those kids don't do a great service, in fact, being a history freak, I'd love to spend a summer with them, but, judge the item, not the story, as someone here often says.

[W Petz]

Silgemnumi,

I have an article written by Timothy W. Ryback Titled: Stalingrad: Letters from the Dead. This article was generated based on Walter Seledecs (Editor at ORF) search for the missing 50,000 Austrians who disappeared in the fighting in and around Salingrad..it's a very interesting article about the the battlefields, Letters of a soldier, a field of bones...literally a field of bones! but to come to the point....it also addresses some of these groups of children you are talking about. A local russian historian by the name of Valery explains that since the disintergration of central authority in the former Soviet Union an increasing number of teenagers have taken to plundering the graves of German War Dead. They scour the fields for burial sites and rob them of everything including Identity discs. They hawk their wares in the streets of Volgograd amongst the tourists. Valery cites they sell ID Tags for $5 to $10, German Helmets for $20 and mentions that a Knights Cross can go for as much as $100. He states whenever he runs into them he would copy down the ID Disc numbers and pass them on to the Volksbund in Kassel. Things may be different with that group you have mentioned and some good has probably come out of it but there is a larger group of children (and probably adults as well) that will continue to rob the grave sites and scatter the bones of soldiers around. So those who were given a shallow grave will never be identified and given a proper burial in a Military Cemetary. Bill <SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_581434", true); </SCRIPT>

[phaleranumismatics]

That's the difference I was referring to. The groups of kids on the honorable mission and a bunch of gold diggers looking for a quick dollar.

[FW 200]

stalingrad dog tags

Have purchased several from source alluded to earlier. All unit markings seem to coincide with locations of units on Stalingrag ww2 maps. All show various stages of pitting,etc. Seems to be a growing and neverending supply,though. I am not sure what to think but the persons stories are very entertaining!

[coastie]

Have purchased several from source alluded to earlier. All unit markings seem to coincide with locations of units on Stalingrag ww2 maps. All show various stages of pitting,etc. Seems to be a growing and neverending supply,though. I am not sure what to think but the persons stories are very entertaining!

So your opinion is that they might be Bona Fide? If so this could be a good source for more displaying material for my students, real battlefield finds.

Side note: met a kid at my school wearing a late period Soviet winter hat (still in the 80's here) He likes cold war stuff, Has an "October Revolution", made me envious it's one I don't have. Ask him about Stalingrad - he had no clue. I'm trying to do my part to educate these youngsters to give them a broad history base knowledge but I can't open their heads and pour it in, and I'm not even a teacher.