Is this combination possible?

[Gew44]

I agree in most case, the ribbon and spange would most likely not have been born together. Maybe in some case the spange is missing a ribbon and just added one.

The thread question where, is it possible, and I dont see why not.

Some of the holders could have been active in a grey area between the KVK
and the iron cross.

I can mention Doctor/medic Josef Mengele received the iron cross of both class.

Best
Nicolai

Mengele received the iron cross BEFORE to be a medic on Auscwitz, during the battles on Ost front as volunteer of 5 SS Panzer Division Wiking on 1942 for act of bravey.
On 30 May 1943, at age 32, he began to serve in Auschwitz.

No gey area, IC or KWK.

For civil people no dubt... only KVK w/out swords

For military the only difference was the effective "battle" service or not..... and that is in evidence from Wehrpass (Company Office) & Soldbuch (always in unifom soldier pocket).
On battle = Iron Cross
Support or troop logistic = KVK with swords.

No suppositions........ all is documented by law and rules.

Many info above : "Die Auszeichnungen des Grossdeutschen Reiches " by Dr. Dohele, 1943 - English version published on 1995

[tystgaard]

.

Where he not in the medical service when awarded the iron cross. I think soo.

What I mean is. It is possible for a WWI vet to have used hes medic skills in the field and be awarded the iron cross. And even hes original WWI cross being awarded as non combat. I dont have any prove or done any research.... just logic.

Best
Nicolai

Mengele received the iron cross BEFORE to be a medic on Auscwitz, during the battles on Ost front as volunteer of 5 SS Panzer Division Wiking on 1942 for act of bravey.
On 30 May 1943, at age 32, he began to serve in Auschwitz.

No gey area, IC or KWK.

For civil people no dubt... only KVK w/out swords

For military the only difference was the effective "battle" service or not..... and that is in evidence from Wehrpass (Company Office) & Soldbuch (always in unifom soldier pocket).
On battle = Iron Cross
Support or troop logistic = KVK with swords.

No suppositions........ all is documented by law and rules.

Many info above : "Die Auszeichnungen des Grossdeutschen Reiches " by Dr. Dohele, 1943 - English version published on 1995

[Dietrich Maerz]

One could also (automatically) receive the EK2 in case of a one-time heavy wound which allowed the awarding of the Wound Badge in Silver or in Gold.
One should also no forget the multiple awardings of the EK2 to DRK nurses....

Dietrich

[ben bijker]

No suppositions........ all is documented by law and rules.

So is the prohibition of non-magnetic cores for iron crosses (didn't work), of cloth ek's (didn't work)
I have seen a number of groupings with multiple kc's, one grouping with as much as 3 !!

Not all the rules were strictly followed.

Years ago I got a nice group from a dear German friend.
The group was awarded to her father in law who had died a few years earlier.
In this group: a nice cased ek 1 (1914) and an unmarked ek1 1939
Both were awarded to him, but he should have received an ek1 clasp instead of another ek1.....

[Gew44]

All right Dietrich.

@ Nicolai: But the object of this thresd is if the "Nichtkampferband fur Eisernes Kreuz" ( no combact ribbon) was used also during WWII.

The answer is not.

I think you have right, a Medic could be awarded with "withe ribbon" (on field or 200 Km of front distance) because the medic not are "combact military". A military vet ( soldier/private) who used medic skil is impossible, during WWI only a "money peoples" went at hight school or university, and they are all officiers.

During WWI the various commands were allowed to write positive outcome for conferring to EKII compiled, from administrative point of view, received even from civil offices , extending the opportunity to receive the EKII to the staff of Civil Services (postmen, bakers, military workers, railroad men, etc.).

But this is another story.....

Thanks for reply Nicolai and have a nice evening.

[Gew44]

Ben you have found only the crosses or also a document ? Because is possible the vet lost the spange and bought a IC first class to personal memory. It's impossible the vet received another EKI during WWII.

All was wrote inside Wehrpass and Soldbuch, especially old military service.

About the EKI cloth they are a "personal" choising and the prohibition of no-magnetic cores was made only to decrease the EKI manufacturing cost, the no-frrous raw material is so expansive than iron, and that precious raw materials hijacked for another strategic factories.

About the picture of 3 KC i would like to see that to understandig if is real or only a joke photo to display immediatly how many KC him won.

[ben bijker]

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I really don’t know, but the group came like this.

I know that ek in cloth is a personal choice, and the reason for BM and zinc cores, the point is that it was done while it was forbidden.
Not everything in Germany was done according to the rules.

The 3 kc group is no joke.
I know he wasn’t awarded 3, but according to the rules you couldn’t buy a “spare” KC.
But he had 3 KC, the group was bought by a fellow-collector directly from the next-of-kin of the recipient.
So it happened, there are several groupings with more then 1 kc….